bedouin
Well-Known Member
On what basis? And do you mean "in sight of" or "when risk of collision exists"?
Sounds like a recipe for confusion
Some thoughts on the Colregs - what Rules would you change?
- Thread starter Kukri
- Start date
Sounds like a recipe for confusion
lw395
Well-Known Member
It is IMHO, a recipe for confusion, compared to the RRS which are very clear about how one boat may acquire right of way or become 'keep clear'.
CLB
Well-Known Member
Surely not. It would be madness to be able to change the status of a vessel from 'give way' to 'stand on' by a simple action that could not possible be seen or anticipated by the other vessel.
bedouin
Well-Known Member
The action that does that is not the switching into neutral, but the dropping of the motoring cone.
The reason for the motoring cone is that without it it is not apparent whether or not the yacht is a power driven vessel.
prv
Well-Known Member
Indeed; I was deliberately thinking in terms of commercial shipping since that's what the colregs are chiefly written for. Some here seem to be forgetting that they and their yachts are a mere footnote to the IMO.
But the main purpose of the masthead lights is to let you see another ship at a greater distance than the lower, dimmer sidelights are visible over, and by their differing heights to give a rough idea of its heading. Why would the majority of the world's mariners think the word "motoring" has anything to do with that, especially since masthead lights are still shown by a ship which is drifting with its engines stopped?
Pete
bedouin
Well-Known Member
Surely not
CLB
Well-Known Member
OK, the dropping of the motoring cone would/should be visible but seeing as how no-one uses them in the UK it is an unlikely scenario.
It would also seem a tad selfish to do so, just to become the stand on vessel.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
Yes indeed, unless her engines have been disabled by an "exceptional circumstance" . See Rule Three:
3. General Definitions
For the purpose of these Rules, except where the context otherwise requires:
(a) The word "vessel" includes every description of water craft, including non-displacement craft, wing-in-ground-effect (WIG) vehicle, and seaplanes, used or capable of being used as a means of transportation on water.
(b) The term "power-driven vessel" means any vessel propelled by machinery.
(c) The term "sailing vessel" means any vessel under sail provided that propelling machinery, if fitted, is not being used.
(d) The term "vessel engaged in fishing" means any vessel fishing with nets, lines, trawls or other fishing apparatus which restrict manoeuvrability, but does not include a vessel fishing with trolling lines or other fishing apparatus which do not restrict manoeuvrability.
(e) The word "seaplane" includes any aircraft designed to manoeuvre on the water.
(f) The term "vessel not under command" means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel.
(g) The term "vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre" means a vessel which from the nature of her work is restricted in her ability to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel. The term "vessels restricted in their ability to manoeuvre" shall include but not be limited to:
(i) a vessel engaged in laying, servicing, or picking up a navigation mark, submarine cable or pipeline;
(ii) a vessel engaged in dredging, surveying or underwater operations;
(iii) a vessel engaged in replenishment or transferring persons, provisions or cargo while underway;
(iv) a vessel engaged in the launching or recovery of aircraft;
(v) a vessel engaged in mine clearance operations;
(vi) a vessel engaged in a towing operation such as severely restricts the towing vessel and her tow in their ability to deviate from their course.
(h) The term "vessel constrained by her draught" means a power-driven vessel which, because of her draught in relation to the available depth and width of navigable water, is severely restricted in her ability to deviate from the course she is following.
(i) The word "underway" means that a vessel is not at anchor, or made fast to the shore, or aground.
(j) The words "length" and "breadth" of a vessel mean her length overall and greatest breadth.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
The usual account of the history of the Colregs is in Cockcroft and Lamejier:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Guide-Collision-Avoidance-Rules-Cockcroft/dp/0750661798
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capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Indeed. Consider under way but not making way.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
Prior to the development of a single set of international rules and practices, there existed separate practices and various conventions and informal procedures in different parts of the world, as advanced by various maritime nations. As a result, there were inconsistencies and even contradictions that gave rise to unintended collisions. Vessel navigation lights for operating in darkness as well as navigation marks also were not standardised, giving rise to dangerous confusion and ambiguity between vessels at risk of colliding.
With the advent of steam-powered ships in the mid-19th century, conventions for sailing vessel navigation had to be supplemented with conventions for power-driven vessel navigation. Sailing vessels are limited as to their manoeuvrability in that they cannot sail directly to windward or into the eye of the wind and cannot be readily navigated in the absence of wind. On the other hand, steamships can manoeuvre in all 360 degrees of direction and can be manoeuvred irrespective of the presence or absence of wind.
In 1840 in London, the Trinity House drew up a set of regulations which were enacted by Parliament in 1846. The Trinity House rules were included in the Steam Navigation Act 1846, and the Admiralty regulations regarding lights for steam ships were included in this statute in 1848. In 1849 Congress extended the light requirements to sailing vessels on US waters. In the UK in 1858 coloured sidelights were recommended for sailing vessels and fog signals were required to be given, by steam vessels on the ships whistle and by sailing vessels on the fog horn or bell, while a separate but similar action was also taken in the United States.
In 1850, English maritime Law was being adopted in the United States.[4]
Also in 1850, courts in the England and the United States adopted common law pertaining to reasonable speed within the Assured Clear Distance Ahead.[5][6][7]
In 1863 a new set of rules drawn up by the British Board of Trade, in consultation with the French government, came into force. By 1864 the regulations (or Articles) had been adopted by more than thirty maritime countries, including Germany and the United States (passed by the United States Congress as Rules to prevent Collisions at Sea. An act fixing certain rules and regulations for preventing collisions on the water. 29 April 1864, ch. 69.[8] and signed into law by President Abraham Lincoln).
In 1867, Thomas Gray, assistant secretary to the Maritime Department of the Board of Trade, wrote The Rule of the Road, a pamphlet that became famous for its well-known mnemonic verses.
In 1878, the United States codified its common law rules for preventing collisions.[9]
In 1880, the 1863 Articles were supplemented with whistle signals and in 1884 a new set of international regulations was implemented.
In 1889 the United States convened the first international maritime conference in Washington, D.C. The resulting rules were adopted in 1890 and effected in 1897. Some minor changes were made during the 1910 Brussels Maritime Conference and some rule changes were proposed, but never ratified, at the 1929 International Conference on Safety of Life at Sea (S.O.L.A.S.) With the recommendation that the direction of a turn be referenced by the rudder instead of the helm or tiller being informally agreed by all maritime nations in 1935.
The 1948 S.O.L.A.S. International Conference made several recommendations, including the recognition of radar these were eventually ratified in 1952 and became effective in 1954. Further recommendations were made by a S.O.L.A.S. Conference in London in 1960 which became effective in 1965
The International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea were adopted as a convention of the International Maritime Organization on 20 October 1972 and entered into force on 15 July 1977. They were designed to update and replace the Collision Regulations of 1960, particularly with regard to Traffic Separation Schemes (TSS) following the first of these, introduced in the Strait of Dover in 1967.[1] As of June 2013, the convention has been ratified by 155 states representing 98.7% of the tonnage of the world's merchant fleets.[10]
They have been amended several times since their first adoption. In 1981 Rule 10 was amended with regard to dredging or surveying in traffic separation schemes. In 1987 amendments were made to several rules, including rule 1(e) for vessels of special construction; rule 3(h), vessels constrained by her draught and Rule 10(c), crossing traffic lanes. In 1989 Rule 10 was altered to stop unnecessary use of the inshore traffic zones associated with TSS. In 1993 amendments were made concerning the positioning of lights on vessels. In 2001 new rules were added relating to wing-in-ground-effect (WIG) craft and in 2007 the text of Annex IV (Distress signals) was rewritten.[1]
With the advent of steam-powered ships in the mid-19th century, conventions for sailing vessel navigation had to be supplemented with conventions for power-driven vessel navigation. Sailing vessels are limited as to their manoeuvrability in that they cannot sail directly to windward or into the eye of the wind and cannot be readily navigated in the absence of wind. On the other hand, steamships can manoeuvre in all 360 degrees of direction and can be manoeuvred irrespective of the presence or absence of wind.
In 1840 in London, the Trinity House drew up a set of regulations which were enacted by Parliament in 1846. The Trinity House rules were included in the Steam Navigation Act 1846, and the Admiralty regulations regarding lights for steam ships were included in this statute in 1848. In 1849 Congress extended the light requirements to sailing vessels on US waters. In the UK in 1858 coloured sidelights were recommended for sailing vessels and fog signals were required to be given, by steam vessels on the ships whistle and by sailing vessels on the fog horn or bell, while a separate but similar action was also taken in the United States.
In 1850, English maritime Law was being adopted in the United States.[4]
Also in 1850, courts in the England and the United States adopted common law pertaining to reasonable speed within the Assured Clear Distance Ahead.[5][6][7]
In 1863 a new set of rules drawn up by the British Board of Trade, in consultation with the French government, came into force. By 1864 the regulations (or Articles) had been adopted by more than thirty maritime countries, including Germany and the United States (passed by the United States Congress as Rules to prevent Collisions at Sea. An act fixing certain rules and regulations for preventing collisions on the water. 29 April 1864, ch. 69.[8] and signed into law by President Abraham Lincoln).
In 1867, Thomas Gray, assistant secretary to the Maritime Department of the Board of Trade, wrote The Rule of the Road, a pamphlet that became famous for its well-known mnemonic verses.
In 1878, the United States codified its common law rules for preventing collisions.[9]
In 1880, the 1863 Articles were supplemented with whistle signals and in 1884 a new set of international regulations was implemented.
In 1889 the United States convened the first international maritime conference in Washington, D.C. The resulting rules were adopted in 1890 and effected in 1897. Some minor changes were made during the 1910 Brussels Maritime Conference and some rule changes were proposed, but never ratified, at the 1929 International Conference on Safety of Life at Sea (S.O.L.A.S.) With the recommendation that the direction of a turn be referenced by the rudder instead of the helm or tiller being informally agreed by all maritime nations in 1935.
The 1948 S.O.L.A.S. International Conference made several recommendations, including the recognition of radar these were eventually ratified in 1952 and became effective in 1954. Further recommendations were made by a S.O.L.A.S. Conference in London in 1960 which became effective in 1965
The International Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea were adopted as a convention of the International Maritime Organization on 20 October 1972 and entered into force on 15 July 1977. They were designed to update and replace the Collision Regulations of 1960, particularly with regard to Traffic Separation Schemes (TSS) following the first of these, introduced in the Strait of Dover in 1967.[1] As of June 2013, the convention has been ratified by 155 states representing 98.7% of the tonnage of the world's merchant fleets.[10]
They have been amended several times since their first adoption. In 1981 Rule 10 was amended with regard to dredging or surveying in traffic separation schemes. In 1987 amendments were made to several rules, including rule 1(e) for vessels of special construction; rule 3(h), vessels constrained by her draught and Rule 10(c), crossing traffic lanes. In 1989 Rule 10 was altered to stop unnecessary use of the inshore traffic zones associated with TSS. In 1993 amendments were made concerning the positioning of lights on vessels. In 2001 new rules were added relating to wing-in-ground-effect (WIG) craft and in 2007 the text of Annex IV (Distress signals) was rewritten.[1]
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
There you go for the history.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
Yup. More than one professional mariner has got that one wrong, hoisted NUC lights when drifting off a port and thought he had somehow acquired rights over other ships. There was a rather spectacular collision between container ships waiting to berth off a Chinese port a couple of years ago. But there are ports in Latin America where to my knowledge vessels drifting are asked by the port authorities to show NUC lights - a case of a special rule.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
Yup, that's the late Captain Cockcroft's account.
capnsensible
Well-Known Member
BelleSerene
Well-Known Member
Because motoring is what the masthead light signifies.
Rule 23:
a) A power-driven vessel underway shall exhibit:
i. a masthead light forward;...
If motoring isn’t being power-driven and underway, I’m not sure what it is!
And furthermore because when you’re drifting with engines stopped, the rules require that that light be extinguished (Rule 27, whether restricted or NUC).
Kukri
Well-Known Member
I nicked from Wikipedia.
Well done. I hadn't spotted it there. It does seem to be rather precisely "the only game in town" on the subject!
Kukri
Well-Known Member
Whoa! The Rule does not say that. Refer back to Rule 3 for the definitions of "not under command" and "restricted in her ability to manoeuvre".
27. Lights for vessels not under command or restricted in their ability to manoeuvre
Vessels not under command or restricted in their ability to manoeuvre
(a) A vessel not under command shall exhibit:
1. two all-round red lights in a vertical line where they can best be seen;
2. two balls or similar shapes in a vertical line where they can best be seen;
3. when making way through the water, in addition to the lights prescribed in this paragraph, sidelights and a sternlight.
(b) A vessel restricted in her ability to manoeuvre, except a vessel engaged in mine-clearance operations, shall exhibit:
three all-round lights in a vertical line where they can best be seen. The highest and lowest of these lights shall be red and the middle light shall be white;
three shapes in a vertical line where they can best be seen. The highest and lowest of these shapes shall be balls and the middle one a diamond;
when making way through the water, a masthead light or lights, sidelights and a sternlight, in addition to the lights prescribed in sub-paragraph (i);
when at anchor, in addition to the lights or shapes prescribed in sub-paragraphs (i) and (ii), the light, lights or shape prescribed in Rule 30.
(c) A power-driven vessel engaged in a towing operation such as severely restricts the towing vessel and her tow in their ability to deviate from their course shall, in addition to the lights or shapes prescribed in Rule 24(a), exhibit the lights or shapes prescribed in sub-paragraphs (b)(i) and (ii) of this Rule.
(d) A vessel engaged in dredging or underwater operations, when restricted in her ability to manoeuvre, shall exhibit the lights and shapes prescribed in sub-paragraphs (b)(i), (ii) and (iii) of this Rule and shall in addition, when an obstruction exists, exhibit:
two all-round red lights or two balls in a vertical line to indicate the side on which the obstruction exists;
two all-round green lights or two diamonds in a vertical line to indicate the side on which another vessel may pass;
when at anchor, the lights or shapes prescribed in this paragraph instead of the lights or shape prescribed in Rule 30.
(e) Whenever the size of a vessel engaged in diving operations makes it impracticable to exhibit all lights and shapes prescribed in paragraph (d) of this Rule, the following shall be exhibited:
three all-round lights in a vertical line where they can best be seen. The highest and lowest of these lights shall be red and the middle light shall be white;
a rigid replica of the International Code flag "A" not less than 1 metre (3.3 ft) in height. Measures shall be taken to ensure its all-round visibility.
(f) A vessel engaged in mine clearance operations shall in addition to the lights prescribed for a power-driven vessel in Rule 23 or to the lights or shape prescribed for a vessel at anchor in Rule 30 as appropriate, exhibit three all-round green lights or three balls. One of these lights or shapes shall be exhibited near the foremast head and one at each end of the fore yard. These lights or shapes indicate that it is dangerous for another vessel to approach within 1,000 metres (0.62 mi) of the mine clearance vessel.
(g) Vessels of less than 12 metres (39.4 ft) in length, except those engaged in diving operations, shall not be required to exhibit the lights and shapes prescribed in this Rule.
(h) The signals prescribed in this Rule are not signals of vessels in distress and requiring assistance. Such signals are contained in Annex IV to these Regulations.
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lw395
Well-Known Member
A power driven vessel, AIUI is a vessel with a motor, other than a sailing vessel with an auxilliary.
So a pwer driven vessel with its engine stopped or in neutral is still a PDV.
Being 'under way' means not anchored, aground, moored, but you are still underway if you are stopped in the water, if you are able to immediately use the engine or sails.
NUC effectively means not ready to make way immediately, i.e not able to turn the key and put it in gear at a minute's notice. So a drifting vessel can be NUC if it is not able to fulfil the obligations it might otherwise have to keep clear.
Kukri
Well-Known Member
Only if the inability to fulfil the obligations arises out of "an exceptional circumstance" :
(f) The term "vessel not under command" means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel.