Some mothers do have 'em..

[Norman_E]

Don't the Royal Yacht Squadron have a white ensign? I sometimes see a rather nice looking yacht with a distinctive reddish brown painted hull out here, and it has a white ensign.

 

[Sandy Bottom]

I have to admit that I'm struggling with this one Norman, have I understood this correctly?

1. He was 'fine on your port bow about 3 - 4 miles distant' when first spotted.
2. The closing speed was a minimum of 13 knots (<15 minutes) because you were doing 6.5K and he was doing 'considerably more' (and he was 'fine on your bow').
3. He was 'on a steady bearing' from 4 miles out until he reached 2 cables - 400 yards.
4. You were on a beam reach with the true wind just abaft the beam?
5. You took no action from 4 miles to 400 yards and then your first action was to fire a flare, and that was also your second action prior to altering course, and that both flares were found, primed and fired within 400 yards at a closing speed 'considerably in excess of 13 knots.
6. You then luffed up (having opted not to come closer to the wind earlier), ducked behind his stern, refilled the sails?
7. You were listening to the 1300 weather forecast throughout.
8. After the first and second flares, you luffed up, bore away, regained course, observed the he was wearing a blue ensign (but not his boat name) and you satisfied yourself that "I have however the distinct impression that the people on board were fair skinned Brits".
9. The lessons that you have learnt are;

I learned three lessons.
1) My little flare gun works very well, chucking a bright flare high in the air, with a satisfying bang as it is ejected.
2) It is useless if nobody is keeping watch. Sound signals are also useless against the noise of motor boat engines unless you have a powerful horn, which I do not.
3) A motorboat that appeared for a long time to be closing with me slowly was actually coming up bloody fast, and I only just avoided a collision.

And the thing that bothers you most is seemingly the colour of his ensign.

Have I understood that correctly?

 

[Norman_E]

Not quite, Drumbeat. In fact the true wind was well behind my beam and I suspect that he was actually much further away than my initial two cables guess when I fired the first flare because I actually had enough time to turn, and come back far enough to maintain good speed, as well as remove the spent cartridge case, screw in another one and fire it before he passed me. The motorboat looked capable of high speed, but did not appear to be going very fast when it passed, or afterwards. If he did slow in response to my flares that actually took him closer to me because his course was not head on but actually crossing me at a narrow angle from port to starboard. One thing he definitely did not do was alter course at all, as his visible wake was dead straight. I did not "duck behind his stern", but put him on my starboard side whilst maintaining the ability to steer. The Greek broadcast started a few minutes later and by the time it ended the motorboat was out of sight because I had rounded a headland by then. The message on channel 16 is not actually a forecast but a long winded spiel in English and Greek telling you to tune to just about every other channel on the VHF in order to hear it! I never do so. The VHF was silent apart from that. I watched the Coastguard launch come round a headland which was four miles from my position close to the Atabol reef, pass half a mile from me and go into a bay about five miles to the north between the time the motorboat had travelled too far for me to read any name on it and the Greek broadcast ending. Now those things really are fast, reputedly capable of over 50 knots and routinely travelling at 40 plus.

Another poster suggested that I should have gybed. That is not something that I would do on my yacht without a bit of preparation. Even in the 13-14 knot wind at the time a gybe without first pulling the heavy boom right in (and preferably setting the Scott Boomlock) would risk damage, and would carry the risk that once turned through the gybe the boat would actually be returning into the path of the other boat. I have seen a boat like mine with a broken gooseneck as a result of an uncontrolled gybe.

 

[Robin]

I suspect that many of them just buy the flag. I doubt if anyone ever checks.

I have seen simple plain blue ensigns on sale years ago in chandlers, but the defaced ones used by some Yacht Clubs and associations ( Like the RNSA or Royal Navy Sailing Association, Civil Service Sailing Assoc, the Cruising Association and so on) as far as I know are only sold by those clubs and associations themselves to their members who have British Registered vessels and have provided proof of same and a warrant from the club officers that permit the member to use wear one. This is how we obtained ours years back and we were required to keep the warrant on board together with the ships registration papers, the ensign could only be worn in conjunction with the YC burgee at the masthead or if that was not possible, because of instruments etc then at the starboard spreaders.

Probably the cheapest way to legally qualify for a defaced blue would be to join the Cruising Association

 

[Uricanejack]

This is an odd thread most posters seam to be most interested in the flag. Fly whatever flag makes you happy.

Still can't. Get my head round why you would consider shooting a flare from a flare gun at or in the general direction of another boat.
The suggestion of a red flare was even more bizarre.
If I saw the Rex flare I would think you were in distress.
I would be confused by a white one. Possibly concered you were shooting at me. I would be calling the local authority saying some nut with a red flag was shooting flares at me and request assistance.
I have an American flag on my boat but I'm British so unarmed. I do have. A red flare gun. For distress purposes only.
An actual American might shoot back. With all kinds of real guns.

Where on earth would you get the idea to fire flares at an oncoming boat.

I was not there but I have found myself the in the uncomfortable position of being a stand on vessel doubting the actions of the give way vessel on many more occasions than I could possibly count.
I stop or turn away and carry on with life.

 

[Seajet]

This has got to be one of the most inexperienced threads I have read and you comment Seajet beggers belief. The reason for wearing any club flag is that you can be recognized and, more often than not your club will be your local or social centre. Your friends will able to identify you by your flag. It has nothing whatsoever to do do with 'financial posing'. Certainly some of the very well known, senior clubs, will cost more than others and some will attract more affluent members.

The red ensign is, sadly , becoming more and more of a flag of convenience. There is no guarantee that a British registered yacht is British owned. This is more and more relevant as you get to the Med and further afield.

In my very personal experience stupidity is not confined to mobos or to nationality. I have seen and been subject to stupidity from many nationalities and as many sailing boats as mobos.

If you are going to disobey the colregs, you should do so early and obviously but the question is how early and which way do you turn. If you turn against a 'give way' vessel you might very easily be turning into danger. I would suggest that many of those who criticize have never been in this situation. By far the most important course of action is to try and attract the attention of the approaching vessel by whatever means is available to you. Radio is normally fairly useless as, in these waters there are hundreds of boats milling about. 'Vessel approaching' or 'Vessel in position' will be meaningless. They will probably not have their radio on and will certainly not know their position to any degree of accuracy. A flare, preferably a red one during the daytime , is a very acceptable warning. (I personally would prefer a 12 bore with some of the idiots about)

Those who do not see the need to fly any ensign, plainly speak through total inexperience or they never sail in international waters. The ensign of you registered country is a legal requirement in international or other country's waters.

I wouldn't mind comparing our relative levels of experience, and I've never had to resort to firepower yet to avoid a collision !

 

[Marsupial]

Near misses sort of get consigned to the bin along with the "one that got away" fisherman's stories, also reminds me of the Monty Python train spotter in the dessert who had nearly seen one train; or the drive into town where I nearly hit a couple of dozen cars in close quarters competition for road position, or docking the boat where I nearly collide with boat next door when its 6 inches away.

If you want to make the event more interesting by using pyrotechnics then fine if you can afford it, go for it.

But flags, there's a thing, "The use and abuse of the blue ensign", could be a book a film a play or just normal life on the pontoon. It provokes such emotion the fluttering cloth is powerful stuff. Its a funny thing but I never mention my flag, but for simply territorial reasons and to chalk one up against the Dutch we do have the largest red ensign we could buy hanging on the back of the boat 2 yds I think it is. It requires reefing in a F6. No offense meant towards our Dutch friends its just that they always have a very large ensign - so we have a larger one if possible. In Dover we always seemed to be in someway inadequate when the Dutch visitors unfurled their acres of flag and we compared it to our miserable offerings be they Blue or Red.

However, its true to say that the owners of boats with Blue ensigns more often than not have to tell you they have a blue ensign, mostly in a very loud voice as if announcing royalty and some even go as far as to say that makes them superior sailors. Why do they do that? and yes they do - do that - all the time - strange people!

Flags of convenience, before leaving the UK I only saw the White ensign on the Grey Funnel line, and on one very large very well maintained classic super yacht in the Caribbean. Out here there are lots of yachts with white dusters never before have I seen so many and I see a few with the union flag, in most cases the owners of these RN and other vessels are Russian. The chandleries out here stock and sell you any flag you want and they're cheap too, £10 buys you a very big one!, courtesy flags 60p. The problem, if that's what we want to call it, is that British maritime flags are very complicated and those who seek to imitate a UK registered vessel cant get their heads round the complexity. My advice to them for what its worth is stick with the stars and stripes there's only one of those (I think) maybe some defaced ones? but the basic flag is the same not red or blue or white for example.

 

[NealB]

its true to say that the owners of boats with Blue ensigns more often than not have to tell you they have a blue ensign, mostly in a very loud voice as if announcing royalty and some even go as far as to say that makes them superior sailors. Why do they do that? and yes they do - do that - all the time - strange people!

I'd just like to counter that with my own experience.

In over forty years of sailing, I have never noticed such tacky, chavvy behaviour.

I think we hear what we want to hear, and we see what we want to see.

So those who are bothered by ensign colour, make all sorts of peculiar, and unjustified, assumptions (about financial status, about seamanship, and even, apparently, about tone of voice).

Now to me, that's all very strange, and rather silly!

Blue is my favorite colour, blue ensigns look nice. They say nothing, in my opinion, about the boat's crew or owner.

Yes, that's it really....they look nice (to me)!

(Incidentally, my boats have always worn red).

 

[JumbleDuck]

Incidentally, my boats have always worn red ensigns, though I was a member of the CA for many years.

My boats have always had Scottish red ensigns. I haven't see a Scottish blue ensign ... yet.

 

[Marsupial]

I'd just like to counter that with my own experience.

In over forty years of sailing, I have never noticed such tacky, chavvy behaviour.

I think we hear what we want to hear, and we see what we want to see.

So those who are bothered by ensign colour, make all sorts of peculiar, and unjustified, assumptions (about financial status, about seamanship, and even, apparently, about tone of voice).

Now to me, that's all very strange, and rather silly!

Blue is my favorite colour, blue ensigns look nice. They say nothing, in my opinion, about the boat's crew or owner.

Yes, that's it really....they look nice (to me)!

(Incidentally, my boats have always worn red).

Sorry but you're not getting it, I don't worry about the colour of my ensign, I can fly both! But I have made a genuine observation about some who do, and in all honesty after 54 years sailing I have NEVER heard anyone announce that they have a red duster - blue yes red no. As for financial status don't know not sure there is a correlation there. Have any colour you like please do but announce it? You don't, I don't but many do, why? In fethiye I
I have heard "you must take our line we have a blue ensign - what's that all about - then?

Just a friendly observation not intending to besmerch or attack anyone!

 

[NealB]

I don't but many do, why? In fethiye I
I have heard "you must take our line we have a blue ensign - what's that all about - then?

Really, I've never ever heard that, and can't believe anyone would so stupid and rude, yet you've heard it many times.

As for "you must take my lines....".......absolutely beggars belief, and they'd deserve whatever retort you might throw back at them!

But gladly, I've never seen anything remotely like that.

 

[Robin]

Near misses sort of get consigned to the bin along with the "one that got away" fisherman's stories, also reminds me of the Monty Python train spotter in the dessert who had nearly seen one train; or the drive into town where I nearly hit a couple of dozen cars in close quarters competition for road position, or docking the boat where I nearly collide with boat next door when its 6 inches away.

If you want to make the event more interesting by using pyrotechnics then fine if you can afford it, go for it.

But flags, there's a thing, "The use and abuse of the blue ensign", could be a book a film a play or just normal life on the pontoon. It provokes such emotion the fluttering cloth is powerful stuff. Its a funny thing but I never mention my flag, but for simply territorial reasons and to chalk one up against the Dutch we do have the largest red ensign we could buy hanging on the back of the boat 2 yds I think it is. It requires reefing in a F6. No offense meant towards our Dutch friends its just that they always have a very large ensign - so we have a larger one if possible. In Dover we always seemed to be in someway inadequate when the Dutch visitors unfurled their acres of flag and we compared it to our miserable offerings be they Blue or Red.

However, its true to say that the owners of boats with Blue ensigns more often than not have to tell you they have a blue ensign, mostly in a very loud voice as if announcing royalty and some even go as far as to say that makes them superior sailors. Why do they do that? and yes they do - do that - all the time - strange people!

Flags of convenience, before leaving the UK I only saw the White ensign on the Grey Funnel line, and on one very large very well maintained classic super yacht in the Caribbean. Out here there are lots of yachts with white dusters never before have I seen so many and I see a few with the union flag, in most cases the owners of these RN and other vessels are Russian. The chandleries out here stock and sell you any flag you want and they're cheap too, £10 buys you a very big one!, courtesy flags 60p. The problem, if that's what we want to call it, is that British maritime flags are very complicated and those who seek to imitate a UK registered vessel cant get their heads round the complexity. My advice to them for what its worth is stick with the stars and stripes there's only one of those (I think) maybe some defaced ones? but the basic flag is the same not red or blue or white for example.

I believe there are two US ensigns the regular Stars and Stripes and the US Power Squadron one with fewer stars, apparently according to West Marine catalogue, either can be chosen, but we wear the regular one on our US documented boat. WE had a defaced blue YC ensign in the UK because, as someone else pointed out, it was a club thing and when we first joined that club we wanted to advertise our membership to other club members when out and about, no more to it than that although the 'blue one matched the hull stripes and the red on flew better in light winds,

OUR red ensign when we wore that was see through from years of wear and if anything that was the really 'snobby one' for that reason, that it showed years of wear.

BIt like anchors this argument, which anchor marks you down as the real old salt, a rusty trusty genuine CQR or a shiny bendy new Rocna. with a wife standing by in her sexy scuba gear to go photo it.