jon68
New member
Advice needed - considering buying a 36ft Sailing Yacht which currently has electric rads in the forward and aft cabins and would consider having a solid fuel stove in the saloon area - Pros and Cons?
thanks
thanks
Solid / Wood burning stoves on a Yacht?
- Thread starter jon68
- Start date
OldBawley
Active member
One of the biggest plusses for wood or solid fuel heating ( and cooking ) is de chimney.
Although the chimney may catch a sheet he transports the residue gas, ( smoke ) water and in some cases the tar outside.
Cooking on a yacht is mostly done on gas. Burning gas creates water and heat. Lots of water. About a bucket of water for one litre of gas.
That water condenses inside. Big problem.
Solid fuel heaters and cookers have a dry heat. No condense unless you are cooking with open pots.
Although the chimney may catch a sheet he transports the residue gas, ( smoke ) water and in some cases the tar outside.
Cooking on a yacht is mostly done on gas. Burning gas creates water and heat. Lots of water. About a bucket of water for one litre of gas.
That water condenses inside. Big problem.
Solid fuel heaters and cookers have a dry heat. No condense unless you are cooking with open pots.
Kelpie
Well-known member
I woukd say the biggest advantage of a solid fuel heater is the simplicity- not much to go wrong, so long as you are reasonably careful about what you put in it, and you keep the flue clean. The smaller ones can be a bit fussy about fuel, as it can be hard to maintain a good fire that is very small in size. The larger ones can take a variet of fuels (including scavenged wood) but might overheat your boat!
Downsides:
You need enough space for the heater inc sufficient spacing to any wooden bulkheads, furniutr etc. also enough space for the flue.
The flue will be happiest if it emerges roughly in a line with the mast, further aft may suffer downdrafts from the main, further forward may foul the jibsheets.
The flue may need to be quite tall (use a removable extension) to get good reliable draw.
If you put resinous softwood into the fire you might get tarry deposits in the flue and possibly on your decks and sailcovers.
A smaller fire will probably go out overnigt so you might wake up to a cold boat.
Fuel storage and ash removal can be a problem.
Downsides:
You need enough space for the heater inc sufficient spacing to any wooden bulkheads, furniutr etc. also enough space for the flue.
The flue will be happiest if it emerges roughly in a line with the mast, further aft may suffer downdrafts from the main, further forward may foul the jibsheets.
The flue may need to be quite tall (use a removable extension) to get good reliable draw.
If you put resinous softwood into the fire you might get tarry deposits in the flue and possibly on your decks and sailcovers.
A smaller fire will probably go out overnigt so you might wake up to a cold boat.
Fuel storage and ash removal can be a problem.
jimbaerselman
New member
Fit a carbon monoxide detector.
jeanne
Member
We had small solid fuel stove, that came from an old static caravan, on a 33 ft ferro yacht. It was very nice to have it in winter, and came in handy now and then in summer, more often to dry the boat out after a soaking than to heat it, and was rarely used when we were under way. The chimney is problem. It gets very hot, so we had to put a vertical post in front of it, to stop anyone falling against it. The fitting which takes the chimney through the deck needs to keep the deck (ours was foam sandwich/ GRP), from getting hot, and it was a while before we cured the leaks caused by the movement of the hot metal. The chimney will not be as long as it should be, so the draught will be poor, and the fire will smoke until it gets going well. You can extend the chimney in winter. There will need to be a cowl to stop the rain, which will catch every rope on the boat, so it should be changed to a cap when sailing, or you will need a good supply of the cowls!
But perhaps the most serious problem is the bulkhead behind the fire. We left an inch or two as an air gap there, and covered the bulkhead, which was made of fire-proof plywood, with ceramic tiles to protect it. But when the boat came to live in a hot climate, and the stove was removed, we found the bulkhead charred right through under the tiles. It must have been close to starting a fire, possibly while we were asleep. A larger air gap would have been better, although on a smallish boat that is not easy.
A fan fitted on the deckhead by the chimney, and facing straight down, was a good addition. It cools the chimney, and warms the cabin, especially down by your feet.
The stove carried a warning not to use bituminous fuel, but we did, as coal is so more efficient than wood, and easier to store, so after 10 years of misuse it started to fall to pieces.
I loved the fire, but in hindsight, it probably was a poor choice, caused by not being able to afford anything better. The stove cost 12 quid, second hand, and a good diesel heater was way out of budget. The other factor is that everyone seemed to be having problems with their diesels. Your choice!
But perhaps the most serious problem is the bulkhead behind the fire. We left an inch or two as an air gap there, and covered the bulkhead, which was made of fire-proof plywood, with ceramic tiles to protect it. But when the boat came to live in a hot climate, and the stove was removed, we found the bulkhead charred right through under the tiles. It must have been close to starting a fire, possibly while we were asleep. A larger air gap would have been better, although on a smallish boat that is not easy.
A fan fitted on the deckhead by the chimney, and facing straight down, was a good addition. It cools the chimney, and warms the cabin, especially down by your feet.
The stove carried a warning not to use bituminous fuel, but we did, as coal is so more efficient than wood, and easier to store, so after 10 years of misuse it started to fall to pieces.
I loved the fire, but in hindsight, it probably was a poor choice, caused by not being able to afford anything better. The stove cost 12 quid, second hand, and a good diesel heater was way out of budget. The other factor is that everyone seemed to be having problems with their diesels. Your choice!
dslittle
Well-known member
Downside - your neighbour's might not be too happy. Recent wind shift brought some nice ash onto my boat from a solid fuel burner...
OldBawley
Active member
When I first installed my wood burning stove I also installed a carbon monoxide detector.
I mounted the detector into the forward cabin where we sleep, the wood stove is in the cabin.
First time I started the diesel engine and backed out of our berth the detector went off. He sensed the carbon monoxide from the diesel engine exhaust.
With this type of detector, one has to change the battery/ detecting element after an alarm. ( Very expensive ) So the detector proved to be useless. He detects engine running even with head winds. Normal and in perfect condition exhaust system. Perkins is old but overhauled, so better than new.
So if buying a detector, make sure he can be used on a yacht using the diesel engine.
The detector is still there after 28 years of daily wood burner use. The battery / sensor unit is stored in a sealed package in a locker next to the detector. Probably useless after 28 years.
Since using the wood burner on our boat I suffered massive brain damage. However, the damage is not caused by carbon monoxide. My wife claims its just old age and retarding. ( hmmmmm )
photon
Member
Wood must be dry to be fuel. Water being the material of choice for the fire-brigade. Wood is also quite low density as a fuel in storage as opposed to oil, gas or solid-fuel.
A multi-fuel smallest stove with suitable fireproof surrounds, and air gap that allows adequate air to convect around and a chimney that is insulated near any combustible material, and perhaps capable of being capped would be my minimum specification. There are only a few small multi-fuel stoves, and most are too big. I spent 35 years as a stove retailer and most sales to boat-owners were for canal barges and not yachts.
Of all the problems that faced us, the most significant and repetitive was the insistence of intelligent people in trying to prove that water burns. The resulting poor combustion and destructive distillation of wood into tar (that then condenses in the chimney and catches fire when least expected) was the source of most complaints of those who attempt to defeat physics.
Personally I would recommend a diesel stove or an Eberspacher/Webasto type. The wet versions of these could be integrated with engine coolant water and a calorifier for hot water. The small fan-assisted radiators necessary can easily find a home and plumbing a flow and return in Hep2O is easier than routing the hot air ducts from a dry system.
Not the environmental argument that I would normally propose but possibly a pragmatic one.
Hope this helps
A multi-fuel smallest stove with suitable fireproof surrounds, and air gap that allows adequate air to convect around and a chimney that is insulated near any combustible material, and perhaps capable of being capped would be my minimum specification. There are only a few small multi-fuel stoves, and most are too big. I spent 35 years as a stove retailer and most sales to boat-owners were for canal barges and not yachts.
Of all the problems that faced us, the most significant and repetitive was the insistence of intelligent people in trying to prove that water burns. The resulting poor combustion and destructive distillation of wood into tar (that then condenses in the chimney and catches fire when least expected) was the source of most complaints of those who attempt to defeat physics.
Personally I would recommend a diesel stove or an Eberspacher/Webasto type. The wet versions of these could be integrated with engine coolant water and a calorifier for hot water. The small fan-assisted radiators necessary can easily find a home and plumbing a flow and return in Hep2O is easier than routing the hot air ducts from a dry system.
Not the environmental argument that I would normally propose but possibly a pragmatic one.
Hope this helps
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jotheboat
Well-known member
Fuel storage may be a problem?
Great for condensation - they burn using moist cabin air which is constantly replaced by fresh external air through adequate external vents
If you get one, get a multi-fuel (coal / wood) as availability and costs vary widely.
Not sure about fitting a flue through GRP through I'm sure it's done.
This may help give you some installation ideas......
http://www.soliftec.com/Boat Stoves 1-page.pdf
Great for condensation - they burn using moist cabin air which is constantly replaced by fresh external air through adequate external vents
If you get one, get a multi-fuel (coal / wood) as availability and costs vary widely.
Not sure about fitting a flue through GRP through I'm sure it's done.
This may help give you some installation ideas......
http://www.soliftec.com/Boat Stoves 1-page.pdf
BSSOffice
New member
And the resulting steam created also releases acids that rot the stove and chimney. It is critical that wood fuel is dry and well seasoned or there could be tears.
However, installed properly, used correctly and given timely maintenance, many boaters get several years of dry warmth from their stoves.
But I'd advise any boater to remember this, that in our records of incidents, after electrics/electrical equipment, solid fuel stoves are routinely second in the list of the most common cause of either fire or carbon monoxide incidents (hence the advice to install, run and maintain correctly).
There's more advice for boaters thinking about solid fuel stoves on our website here www.boatsafetyscheme.org/stay-safe/solid-fuel-stoves/
jon68
New member
brilliant and thank you all
OldBawley
Active member
Some extra info :
We have a Refleks diesel stove and a self made wood burning stove. Both have a cooking plate on top. Wintering in Holland I used the diesel heater, dry wood was difficult to find. Since cruising the Med where dry wood is found in abundance we only use the wood stove.
Ours works 2h in the morning to make coffee and hot water for washing the dishes, and 6 h in the evening for cooking and heat. This winter in Poros Greece, it was very cold for Med, and then I kept the fire going all day. Never at night, that is not possible, the size the wood I gather is to small. Filling one ore two sticks every 20 minutes keeps a blazing fire.
The stove is small, ( small boat ) even with a full load of wood and set to smouldering the fire lasts only three hours.
You need to think about wood. I go and gather it myself, it is a sort of exercise, some physical job. Others go to the gym, we do an hour long walk and gather wood for two to three days. Rowing ashore, walking the hills around the bay, gathering wood. In the canal Du Midi I had to saw the wood into chunks, here I break it. Since we sail a wooden yacht I only take a certain hardwood that never contains insects. No idea what the wood is, some call it “Maccia”. Bushes with branches about an inch thick and thee feet long. Nobody uses the stuff, for Greeks and Turks its just weed they have to get rid of. ( Hence the many wildfires. ) The wood is to hard to saw, burns even wet like coal. For times of rain or illness, we keep three bags of wood in reserve. That would last for three weeks. The bags are stored in the bowsprit net. We have a small rectangular Reflex, but use only the wood burner in the Med. Cost for heating this winter : zero. Cost of gas for cooking : one small camping gas cylinder. ( 11 € ) Others had a prob heating the boat, not us, since it is free, no cost, one can be generous. The wood stove is not powerful enough for certain cooking techniques, so we have the gas next to the wood burner. Normally, we use the wood stove 7 months/ year in the Med.
This stove is 25 years old, a few new window glasses and a new flue pipe was all that was needed in 25 years of work. The first flue pipe was brass and I ruined it by burning wood witch had still seawater in it. That creates sulphuric acid, and that destroyed the brass. Now have a SS pipe.
I use the Reflex outer flue over the wood stove flue, so it works in force 8 if steady. Any more wind and I shit my pants so don´t worry about fire.
I don´t have any clue anymore, to far gone, but my wife who lives half time on board- half time in an apartment back North, claims wintertime on our wooden yacht with its wood burning stove is much more comfortable and enjoyable. Just saying.
We have a Refleks diesel stove and a self made wood burning stove. Both have a cooking plate on top. Wintering in Holland I used the diesel heater, dry wood was difficult to find. Since cruising the Med where dry wood is found in abundance we only use the wood stove.
Ours works 2h in the morning to make coffee and hot water for washing the dishes, and 6 h in the evening for cooking and heat. This winter in Poros Greece, it was very cold for Med, and then I kept the fire going all day. Never at night, that is not possible, the size the wood I gather is to small. Filling one ore two sticks every 20 minutes keeps a blazing fire.
The stove is small, ( small boat ) even with a full load of wood and set to smouldering the fire lasts only three hours.
You need to think about wood. I go and gather it myself, it is a sort of exercise, some physical job. Others go to the gym, we do an hour long walk and gather wood for two to three days. Rowing ashore, walking the hills around the bay, gathering wood. In the canal Du Midi I had to saw the wood into chunks, here I break it. Since we sail a wooden yacht I only take a certain hardwood that never contains insects. No idea what the wood is, some call it “Maccia”. Bushes with branches about an inch thick and thee feet long. Nobody uses the stuff, for Greeks and Turks its just weed they have to get rid of. ( Hence the many wildfires. ) The wood is to hard to saw, burns even wet like coal. For times of rain or illness, we keep three bags of wood in reserve. That would last for three weeks. The bags are stored in the bowsprit net. We have a small rectangular Reflex, but use only the wood burner in the Med. Cost for heating this winter : zero. Cost of gas for cooking : one small camping gas cylinder. ( 11 € ) Others had a prob heating the boat, not us, since it is free, no cost, one can be generous. The wood stove is not powerful enough for certain cooking techniques, so we have the gas next to the wood burner. Normally, we use the wood stove 7 months/ year in the Med.
This stove is 25 years old, a few new window glasses and a new flue pipe was all that was needed in 25 years of work. The first flue pipe was brass and I ruined it by burning wood witch had still seawater in it. That creates sulphuric acid, and that destroyed the brass. Now have a SS pipe.
I use the Reflex outer flue over the wood stove flue, so it works in force 8 if steady. Any more wind and I shit my pants so don´t worry about fire.
I don´t have any clue anymore, to far gone, but my wife who lives half time on board- half time in an apartment back North, claims wintertime on our wooden yacht with its wood burning stove is much more comfortable and enjoyable. Just saying.
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lenten
Active member
i have installed 8 small woodburners in my glamping shepherds hut business--thegreenescape.co.uk----make/model ---hobbit from salamander stoves----4 kw----they give more than enough warmth to heat a sheperds hut size---14x7x7 feet in winter---in the shower hut i have one with a back boiler in a space 7x7x7 feet---even with a back boiler taking heat out for a radiator next door it is possibly too hot ---- you hardly need a towel ----just a few pirouettes to dry yourself ---i don t know what size space you want to heat but there is not so much choice in very small stoves----regards lenten --ps pictures of stoves on my site----pictures and instructions for installing a hobbit woodstove on a canal boat on salamander stoves site
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Kelpie
Well-known member
Have you tried the Pipsqueak from the same company?
lenten
Active member
kelpie----not sure but i think pipsqueak is discontinued-----the hobbit is a good stove and i thought given the dimensions being heated might be useful to jon68------also think it might be too hot for a smallish boat this side of the arctic circle-----regards lenten
overstag
Member
Get the best of both worlds.
A stove that has an overboard chimney, but burns diesel. And you can cook on it.
http://www.rietpol.com/heatpol.htm
45 different models, even for central heating installations. Any boat length.
A stove that has an overboard chimney, but burns diesel. And you can cook on it.
http://www.rietpol.com/heatpol.htm
45 different models, even for central heating installations. Any boat length.
jon68
New member
Looks interesting - might have to brush up on my Dutch though
