[2068]
...
A busted outdrive can sink a motorboat in an hour or so if the rubber bellows are damaged.
Solent today?
- Thread starter pikeyrm
- Start date
mobeydick
Well-Known Member
Let's just say all moboters should pay for RNLI assistance and all sailing boat owners get free assistance. Any motor-sailers have to pay half.
If you run aground on the Bramble Bank, you should let the CG know, and you try and STOP them sending a Lifeboat, even if you don't want one.
MD
If you run aground on the Bramble Bank, you should let the CG know, and you try and STOP them sending a Lifeboat, even if you don't want one.
MD
ricky_s
Well-Known Member
Eh?
fireball
Well-Known Member
I think it's missing the irony smilie ....
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
The boat in question doesn't appear to fall into any of those last 3 categories, it does however appear to be in distress. Otherwise I am sure he would have made his own way home. I am also sure that the Lifeboat crews and coastguards are far more qualified than you to decide whether to provide their services. Clearly on this occasion they considered it necessary, the fact that you consider that you know better than them is also an insult to their professionalism - do you really think your assessment of the situation after the event and via an internet forum is better than theirs? I doubt it that it is.
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
As I understand it, nobody was taken off and they were towed back home. That seems to put them firmly in the "could have paid for a tow" category ...
I refer the Rt Hon Gentleman to the post in which someone else has said that the Coastguard send the lifeboat out to anyone on the Brambles, whether they want them or not.
Nope. I've already said so.
But beyond that, have you seen the statistics for the number of sailing yachts with broken auxiliary engines the RNLI are called too in fine weather. Note the sailing yachts and fine weather bits there.
Last edited:
Dockhead
Well-Known Member
Wow, that's harsh. I guess you've never been aground and needed help? There but for the grace of God . . . I always say.
As to setting up a commercial tug service in the Solent -- this is a good idea. There are two companies which do this in the States -- Sea Tow, and Towboat U.S. You pay an annual membership fee which is all of $150 (about 100 squids; or $365 if you are a fisherman or professional mariner), and if you need help getting off a bank, or in case of a mechanical breakdown, they come out in powerful ribs and help you out. So you are not burdening coast guard resources because of a problem you had on a pleasure trip.
As far as I understand, Sea Start is similar, but do not tow. Maybe they would be inspired at some point to add that service.
Of course everyone who ventures out to sea for fun has a responsibility to be as self-reliant as possible. I think every pleasure boater ought to know how to bleed a diesel engine, unclog a filter, clear a raw water strainer, change an impeller, and jury-rig a starting circuit, at the very least (and have necessary parts and tools on board). And of course it's hard to understand why a sailor would call for help in good weather if his rig is intact and his only problem is with mechanical propulsion. But those who render aid are trained not to ask any questions -- and that's right. It's up to all of us, not to abuse their willingness to help.
That's why I, personally, would like to sign up for some kind of towing service. If God forbid something happens -- and sometimes even the best and most careful pilots of yachts do go aground -- you know the person helping you is making a profit and so you don't have any problems with conscience.
Last edited:
jhr
Well-Known Member
From their website:
Not sure that includes tugging you off the putty and if there were any suggestion of an emergency developing, I'm pretty sure they'd call out the RNLI, just like thee and me.
fireball
Well-Known Member
I know SeaStart tow - cos a few years ago we saw a Mobo anchored in a very strange place south of winner bank in the entrance to Chi Harbour - being in the Club patrol boat we pootled over to see what was up ... turned out their engine wasn't working and couldn't anchor either ... so as they were nearly aground we towed them back to the channel and passed them onto the SeaStart rib that was on his way to them ... he then took them in tow ...
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
Not yet.
I agree, which is why my criticism is entirely of those who use the RNL for trivia and not of the RNLI.
Last autumn I found myself in an awkward position. I was tied to the mackerel pontoon outside Milford Haven lock. The wind was 25 - 30kt from the W, the boat was being pounded against the rubber fendering and I wasn't at all sure that her puny little engine would be able to push her forward against the wind to make the 50yds needed before turning into the lock.
I would gladly have paid for a tow but it never, ever, for one instant occurred to me to call the lifeboat. I could walk ashore in fifteen seconds and my life was in no danger whatsoever - the worst I faced was a very uncomfortable night (or a kip in the car) and possibly a repair bill.
As it turned out the wind dropped for ten minutes, a cautious experiment showed that the engine could, just about, relieve the tension on the mooring ropes and thirty seconds after casting off I was in the lock. Phew.
fireball
Well-Known Member
UG - I can see where you're coming from ... but 'call the RNLI' or not is not usually black and white.
As stated above incidents are usually reported to the CG - and they will judge whether to task a lifeboat or helicopter or not ... and usually some sort of assistance is sent - this achieves a number of things:
1) reduces risk to the people on the distressed vessel
2) boosts moral to those people (as in - they are not alone and someone is there who can rescue them)
3) provides training and experience for the team sent
We can all give stories of incidents where we didn't call for help ... I lost a propshaft in the entrance to the harbour on an ebb tide ... just called Dad & F-i-Law to let them know and sailed back in (just as wind was light) ...
But - here's one for you to judge ...
First time approach to a tricky rock strewn channel - also frequented by commercial craft including fast cat ferries. Wind is light and blowing across the channel. Tide is sweeping you along the channel. Onboard are a few adults and young children.
Your drive from the engine has gone ...
Theoritically you could sail in, or anchor or even get the inflatable out and use the outboard ... If it was me, my first call would be to the CG to let them know what situation I was in, then I'd consider alternatives .... by which time I'd've thought the CG would be sending out a vessel to assist as they'd rather do that than have to clear up a yacht broken up on rocks ....
As stated above incidents are usually reported to the CG - and they will judge whether to task a lifeboat or helicopter or not ... and usually some sort of assistance is sent - this achieves a number of things:
1) reduces risk to the people on the distressed vessel
2) boosts moral to those people (as in - they are not alone and someone is there who can rescue them)
3) provides training and experience for the team sent
We can all give stories of incidents where we didn't call for help ... I lost a propshaft in the entrance to the harbour on an ebb tide ... just called Dad & F-i-Law to let them know and sailed back in (just as wind was light) ...
But - here's one for you to judge ...
First time approach to a tricky rock strewn channel - also frequented by commercial craft including fast cat ferries. Wind is light and blowing across the channel. Tide is sweeping you along the channel. Onboard are a few adults and young children.
Your drive from the engine has gone ...
Theoritically you could sail in, or anchor or even get the inflatable out and use the outboard ... If it was me, my first call would be to the CG to let them know what situation I was in, then I'd consider alternatives .... by which time I'd've thought the CG would be sending out a vessel to assist as they'd rather do that than have to clear up a yacht broken up on rocks ....
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
Uninformed speculation to try and justify your stance.
No they don't. Ill informed again.
Could you direct me to these statistics, I would like to see them.
"I didn't call out the lifeboat when I was tied to a walk ashore pontoon when things got a bit hairy...". Wow, life on the edge or what?
The lifeboats and coastguards go about their daily business using their professional judgement. I am sure they can carry on without you criticising their decisions on which incidents they choose to respond to.
neale
Well-Known Member
Not quite the same then as a boat disabled and aground some way from the safety of dry land.
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
I have always made it clear that I have no detailed knowledge of this situation. I am, however, quite sure that the RNLI is called out frequently to provide simple towing services when there is no substantial risk.
Published annually. RNLI website.
But that's rather the point, isn't it? The RNLI will rightly and willingly to every request for help - that doesn't not mean that every request for help is justified.
It's not just the lifeboats, of course. Ambulance services are regularly called out for quite trivial matters too.
If you want to continue the discussion then I would find it helpful if you could explain whether your point is
- That the RNLI are above criticism (They aren't, but I am making no criticism of them here)
- That the Coastguard are above criticism (I was not the one who said it's impossible to stop them calling out the lifeboat for boats on the Brambles)
- That those boaters who call out the lifeboat are above criticism (We would differ there)
A slightly less aggressive tone would help, too, but I have a thick skin.
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
Indeed, but not very dissimilar from anyone else who would like a tow to avoid inconvenience and discomfort.
I could, of course, simply have pushed off, had a go and called for help if it had all gone wrong. That, I decided, was the irresponsible option.
[2068]
...
I don't agree with your criticism of the skipper in accepting a tow from the RNLI when a "tow from a commercial tug would have been more appropriate". I don't know the exact circumstances, but it probably wasn't the skippers decision to make: having notified the CG, and accepted assistance, CG might have put a call out to see if another vessel could assist, possibly Hamble Rescue or similar, but in the end they decided to task an RNLI lifeboat. I'd be very surprised if "Are you a member of Sea Start" would have been asked in this situation. As a mobo skipper, imaging myself in the same situation, aground in the surf, hull bumping on the bottom, condition of drives/propellors unknown, the option of refusing said assistance in whatever shape or form would not have crossed my mind.
From the point of view of the CG, they are in the business of managing incidents to minimise loss of life and vessels, bringing the appropriate resources to bear each time. It might well have been that Hamble Rescue or similar were otherwise engaged, and the lifeboat was closest.
I'm quite happy with the current role of the RNLI: it would be a shame if it got converted into another state run institution or was replaced by commercial companies.
dv.
From the point of view of the CG, they are in the business of managing incidents to minimise loss of life and vessels, bringing the appropriate resources to bear each time. It might well have been that Hamble Rescue or similar were otherwise engaged, and the lifeboat was closest.
I'm quite happy with the current role of the RNLI: it would be a shame if it got converted into another state run institution or was replaced by commercial companies.
dv.
dt4134
Well-Known Member
Whilst I'm not a supporter of wasting the lifeboats time when the problem can be dealt with with a bit of effort and gumption, I understand the RNLI take advantage of minor incidents to train up their crew.
Considering the lifeboat is kept at Calshot, which would've been visible in the background to the right if the cameraman had shuffled around a bit, it's not as if the RNLI wasted zillions of gallons of fuel for this particular training exercise.
Considering the lifeboat is kept at Calshot, which would've been visible in the background to the right if the cameraman had shuffled around a bit, it's not as if the RNLI wasted zillions of gallons of fuel for this particular training exercise.
l'escargot
Well-Known Member
So no figures to support your claims then
See above
The RNLI seem to think so - they positively encourage people to call them early on. Voluntary organisations need to be visible to encourage donations at the end of the day.
But they will refuse to respond.
No organisation is above criticism. I am not aware of any method for boaters to call out the RNLI directly - they are generally called out by the coastguard, using their professional judgement, or concerned members of the public. And with regards to the coastguard it is my experience that, certainly in these parts, they will explore all options in the event of breakdowns - they always ask people if they are members of Seastart (they operate out of the Hamble) or call for other vessels in the area who may be able to assist with a tow.
I don't think my tone differs greatly from yours, perhaps you are not use to people speaking back to you in the same manner - it isn't unusual though for people who are sometimes hearing things they don't like to make accusations of aggression in the absence of justifiable arguments.
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
I've told you where to find them. There was a short article in one of the mags about this in the autumn when the latest (2008, I think) statistics came out, commenting on the worrying rise in sailing boats calling for help /solely/ because the engine had failed. In some circumstances, of course, that's perfectly sensible, but if it's just to get home a bit earlier than sailing would permit it's not.
i am sure that where there is real risk they would rather be called as soon as possible. How would you feel, though, if your mast went and the lifeboat was twenty miles away towing someone who didn't check his fuel gauge home?
Thinks: In a situation like that would the lifeboat cast off their tow and go and help the serious incident? I imagine so.
Jolly good.
