Solent today?

[Highland Bear]

They could just change it to "Operating without government financial support". How many voluntary contributors know that they are in part funding a free AA service for the inept?

Ah but...how do you know what state the Mobo was in on the Brambles? Maybe there was a wee bit more water over the floor than normal? Maybe the skipper was concerned for his passenger's safety and couldn't be sure that his vessel was still watertight or had power when it floated off?

All good reasons to call the CG and ask for help/advice, especially close to a major shipping lane that was a wee bit like Piccadilly Circus yesterday.

The RNLI - ain't broken, don't fix it.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Ah but...how do you know what state the Mobo was in on the Brambles? Maybe there was a wee bit more water over the floor than normal? Maybe the skipper was concerned for his passenger's safety and couldn't be sure that his vessel was still watertight or had power when it floated off?

I did say I didn't have details, and if he was sinking there was certainly good reason to get the people on board off.

The RNLI - ain't broken, don't fix it.

Well, they've just had a major fundraising drive, haven't they? Perhaps if they weren't spending quite so much time acting as a free club rescue boat they wouldn't be as skint ...

 

[Stemar]

Fact:

I've spoken to a number of lifeboatmen and they all agree that they'd rather be called out to a possible dangerous situation and give a tow than not be called out until it all goes 'orribly wrong and they're looking for survivors.

Speculation:

It's quite possible that said mobo made an embarrassed call to the CG, who decided that a lifeboat should stand by.

As said mobo started to float, they discovered that the props or rudders were damaged, so they couldn't go or couldn't steer, thereby justifiying CG's decision. we now have a genuine danger to navigation, even if the boat's watertight.

A related question

If LBs charge commercial rates and are scrambled by CG for perfectly good reasons, like the potential risk of a 40' lump of plastic drifting around the Solent bouncing off lpg tankers, who pays if the lump of plastic turns out to be fine and potters off home with no more harm than a red face?

 

[Ubergeekian]

I've spoken to a number of lifeboatmen and they all agree that they'd rather be called out to a possible dangerous situation and give a tow than not be called out until it all goes 'orribly wrong and they're looking for survivors.

I am sure that's right. How do they feel about being called out to not possibly dangerous ("we've run out of diesel and it could take hours to sail back home") situations?

As said mobo started to float, they discovered that the props or rudders were damaged, so they couldn't go or couldn't steer, thereby justifiying CG's decision. we now have a genuine danger to navigation, even if the boat's watertight.

That would justify a tow at commercial rates, not the time of volunteer lifesavers.

If LBs charge commercial rates and are scrambled by CG for perfectly good reasons, like the potential risk of a 40' lump of plastic drifting around the Solent bouncing off lpg tankers, who pays if the lump of plastic turns out to be fine and potters off home with no more harm than a red face?

Nobody. Just as nobody pays for ocean tugs on standby.

And I still don't think that lumps of plastic floating around require lifeboats. Tugs, yes. I really am quite horrified at how many leisure sailors seem to think that the RNLI is there for anything other than saving lives.

If the chap on the Brambles had taken out a Sea Start membership he'd have spent a hundred and fifty quid on it and saved the RNLI several thousand ...

I wonder if a dedicated small boat (up to 20 tonnes displacement, say) tug service in the Solent would be commercially viable?

 

[[2068]]

>If the chap on the Brambles had taken out a Sea Start membership he'd have spent a hundred and fifty quid on it and saved the RNLI several thousand ...

How about if the chap on the Brambles was an RNLI Offshore member?

 

[flaming]

I wonder if a dedicated small boat (up to 20 tonnes displacement, say) tug service in the Solent would be commercially viable?

Well, no, because the RNLI are doing that job for free....

Only way you can make this happen is if you make carrying salvage insurance mandatory. Which is regulation. And would have to be accompanied by a boat register etc.

Try proposing that.....

 

[neale]

Frankly, anyone who manages to drive a motorboat onto the best known underwater hazard in Britain deserves an expensive learning experience.

As you specifically mentioned motorboat in the above sentence can you please clarify if you would feel the same about the numerous sailing boats that end up on the bank each year.

 

[Ubergeekian]

As you specifically mentioned motorboat in the above sentence can you please clarify if you would feel the same about the numerous sailing boats that end up on the bank each year.

Yes.

 

[Ubergeekian]

>If the chap on the Brambles had taken out a Sea Start membership he'd have spent a hundred and fifty quid on it and saved the RNLI several thousand ...

How about if the chap on the Brambles was an RNLI Offshore member?

I've never really seen the point in these "membership" schemes. It costs the RNLI to send you stuff, and doesn't actually gain you anything, so if you have the money to spare it'll do more good as a straight donation.

 

[[2068]]

I've never really seen the point in these "membership" schemes. It costs the RNLI to send you stuff, and doesn't actually gain you anything, so if you have the money to spare it'll do more good as a straight donation.

That wasn't really my question.

What I was trying to get at, was if the stranded boater was some sort of regular contributor to the RNLI, would that change your view on how "entitled" he was to a tow?

 

[Ubergeekian]

That wasn't really my question.

What I was trying to get at, was if the stranded boater was some sort of regular contributor to the RNLI, would that change your view on how "entitled" he was to a tow?

Certainly not - unless you think people who don't contribute are less entitled to rescue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUhb0XII93I

Relevant bit starts at 1 minute 9 seconds.

 

[strakeryrius]

This sort of thing can happen to anyone - a moment's distraction or inattention and wham! There you go.

I seem to remember that the QEII ran aground on Brambles Bank last time she visited, and you certainly wouldn't call her pilots inept. Luckily she was a little too large for the RNLI to tow off so it didn't affect them that time.

 

[Flapjack]

I seem to remember that the QEII ran aground on Brambles Bank last time she visited, and you certainly wouldn't call her pilots inept. Luckily she was a little too large for the RNLI to tow off so it didn't affect them that time.

Luckily she didn't do any real damage, unlike the QMII when she did the same off the Florida coast a few years ago, we had to take her to Hamburg to have a pod replaced

 

[l'escargot]

...Perhaps if they weren't spending quite so much time acting as a free club rescue boat they wouldn't be as skint ...

That's one thing the RNLI aren't - skint.

There would have been several rescue boats in that area on Saturday who would have welcomed a training opportunity like that. No big deal and no great financial cost either to tow them in. Probably no lives risked by the the rescued or the recuers either.

I think you are quite disrespectful even mentioning something like the St Ives losses in a minor incident like this - crews like those would have attended routine incidents like this as well, with no complaint. It is just what they do.

 

[[2068]]

If the chap on the Brambles had taken out a Sea Start membership he'd have spent a hundred and fifty quid on it and saved the RNLI several thousand ...

Just bear in mind that Sea Start are a breakdown service. Their staff are not primarily trained to be rescuers.

 

[Twister_Ken]

"There would have been several rescue boats in that area on Saturday"

Actually, no. We were out there at about 1930 hours. We could only see three other yachts in the central Solent. No racing fleets, no rescue boats. And a club rescue boat is going make hard work of towing in a 40 foot motor cruiser through spring tides.

 

[l'escargot]

"There would have been several rescue boats in that area on Saturday"

Actually, no. We were out there at about 1930 hours. We could only see three other yachts in the central Solent. No racing fleets, no rescue boats. And a club rescue boat is going make hard work of towing in a 40 foot motor cruiser through spring tides.

I didn't mean specifically club RIB's I was referring more to "Lifeboats" but was trying to be inclusive as opposed to just RNLI. I would have thought that Calshot, Ryde, Hamble, Cowes or LoS would still be around if there was an ongoing problem. I would have expected any club boats to have gone in when racing had finished.

Anyway, 1930 on Saturday wasn't far off low water - no one would have been towing anything off the Brambles at that time on a falling spring tide.

 

[Ubergeekian]

I seem to remember that the QEII ran aground on Brambles Bank last time she visited, and you certainly wouldn't call her pilots inept.

If they managed to run the QEII onto the Brambles Bank I probably would call them inept. The only possible excuses would be (a) mechanical failure (b) severe weather (c) avoidance of another vessel (d) new ship with unknown handling.

 

[Ubergeekian]

I think you are quite disrespectful even mentioning something like the St Ives losses in a minor incident like this - crews like those would have attended routine incidents like this as well, with no complaint. It is just what they do.

Disrespectful? I don't think so. These people are giving up their time (and often their employers' time) to help mariners in distress. It's a damned insult to expect them to do that for people who can't be bothered hoisting a sail, waiting for a tide or paying for a tow.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Just bear in mind that Sea Start are a breakdown service. Their staff are not primarily trained to be rescuers.

Of course. As I have said, if there was risk to life the RNLI were the right people. If it was just a busted outdrive or two, rescuers weren't needed.