Solent to the River Dart in December

A1Sailor

A1Sailor

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Might be doing this "soon"; and grateful for advice. LWL ~20ft so perhaps speed ~ 4knots. SOG depends on tides (well Duh!), weather and daylight... Sailing - if possible.
Tidal Gates are presumably Hurst Narrows, Portland Bill and Berry Head. Wind east of south would be good!
I can work it out myself - but suggestions welcome. Where can one anchor while waiting for the tide and overnight? Not hugely interested in spending 4 hours going into Weymouth/Poole and back, although time not a huge consideration.
What would YOU do?
(Been sailing for years, RYA Coastal Skipper - but not on the South Coast since 1980's...)

Many thanks.
 
An 'interesting' passage in December...... you need to get west going tide early morning? The real tide gates are Needles and Portland, but starting in the Solent you will get the Needles right. Anchorages - Studland, seahorses permitting; Swanage. Not much else after that, except Weymouth Bay, and you might as well go in the harbour.

You have the choice to go inside at Portland; you really need daylight to avoid the lobster pots there.

You will not cross Lyme Bay in daylight, so why not accept the inevitable and make the passage thought the night if you get some south or east in the wind? Could be very cold though.

Brixham is a bit closer than the Dart if you need to stop early.

I think you r big issue is the weather. According to Simon Keeling it could be unsettled for the next 2 weeks at least

http://www.weatherweb.net/wxwebtv2.php
 
Berry head wont be a issue. Its just getting it right at portland bill and then slog away across lyme bay....
 
photodog said:
Berry head wont be a issue. Its just getting it right at portland bill and then slog away across lyme bay....
Click to expand...

+1 on Berry Head. Ignore it. Don't Rule out Exmouth as a stop if you find yourself caught up in the "corner" of Lyme Bay. In a 20 footer, unless you have a stupidly deep keel, you could get in in most states of tide, though I'd avoid a spring ebb, especially when the wind's in the south. Loads of moorings and the HM could even find you space in the Marina.
 
A key issue is having enough time to choose your weather. Much of the time there will be strong winds. If you can wait for settled weather, you will have a much more comfortable and probably speedier passage, and you will have more choice of places to anchor, but it will be very cold and you will probably have to do a lot of motoring because of light winds.


As the daylight hours are short, you might want to make sure you have some moonlight.

The other, related issue of short daylight hours is organising your trip so you have favourable tides in daylight hours as far as possible.

Enjoy your voyage.
 
Alt stopping spots. It's possible to anchor E of the Bill if you miss your tide there. Don't have any nav info handy but I think the best spot is called Church (or Chapel?) Cove. Depending on your ability to take the ground Lyme Regis may be an option or you can anchor off. Beer Roads (W of Seaton, E of Sidmouth) is a traditional coasting anchorage and good for pretty much any breeze with west in it.
 
Sail my boat through the winter. Your biggest problem wont be the sailing ( you are in Dec more likely to have problems with no wind than with too much) but keeping warm particluarly on a small boat with little room to move about. For that reason I would plan on very short legs with nights in marinas and a power supply. Its bad enough to get really cold during the day but if you cant warm up at night .... And dry out if wet ....... And of course you only habe 0800 to 1600 daylight if that.

I use a floatation suit to help keep warm and it works well.
 
i crossed lyme bay in a 24 footer.
The mistake i made was not realising that the lifting bridge at weymouth has it's first opening at 8am.
This held us up and meant i had more foul tide south of portland than i planned.
Took us 14hrs to cross to dartmouth motor sailing.
Your problem may be it will be dark if you stay to seaward of the bridge when you want to depart weymouth
check the bridge times they may have changed.
 
Solent to Dartmouth

I've sailed my 23ft'er to Dittisham from Gosport, and back a few times. Always non-stop, I have always laid a course at least 6 miles south of Portland Race. I think the best time was 23 hours, slowest about 28. Weather window not too difficult - to me it's always been quite obvious when not to go.

Biggest problem is keeping warm at this time of the year - multiple layers and several flasks of hot stuff usually.

Good Luck - it'll be a lovely trip.

H
 
Thanks to all

I've read the Ouzo report from the MAIB on a number of occasions and thought - "it could've been me"...
Everything is/will be led back to the cockpit so minimal need to venture on deck. Appropriate safety gear also - too much, probably... A flat calm and lots of deisel would be boring!
A night passage once west of the Solent attracts - and timed to pick some moon and clear skies is a good suggestion; thanks. It'll be cold cold cold. With two on board there may be a fight for the off watch pilot berth/sleeping bag; but dry suits is another good one. A trailer and a Land Rover would be another option!!!!!

Reminds me of a joke I once heard:
One brunette says to another, "Which is further away; London or the moon?" Answer - "London. You can see the moon."
I'll get my coat...
 
Don't forget the prevailing wind will be right on the nose and that an easterly wind up the chuff will tend to be cold at this time of year, once round the Bill you are committed so make sure you get your forecast right especially in a boat of that size at this time of year
 
The weather is everything of course. The problem is that the choice is often between westerlies and warmer/wetter weather and Northerlies/Easterlies and very cold weather or no wind and fog, the choice is yours. If you decide on the second option you will need some very warm clothing, layers and layers and even then quite honestly anything more than a couple of hours on deck at a time could be a problem. Invest in a set of very good quality thermal underwear including a thermal balaclava. I am very cautious in traffic at that time of year especially at night of course because shipping won't necessarily be expecting small boats to be about.

As regards the tidal gates I would concentrate on getting past Portland at the right time rather than worry about the local Solent tides however bad they might be. Try and avoid Spring tides as already suggested. An Autohelm is a very good idea.
 
Is this trip for recreation or a delivery trip?

If recreation, then wrap up warm and allow a few days so that you can 'choose' your weather. FWIW, we like Swanage as an anchorage but only in a W or SW wind, and in a westerly you probably wouldn't make this trip in winter in a small boat.

If a delivery trip, is it not easier to ship it by road? Even with a good weather forecast, it's really changeable at this time of year. And a bit like Martin Brundle was saying about Formula 1 weather forecasts; they aren't as reliable as one would hope.

Cheers

Garold
 
A plan

Thanks for the posts and PMs.
"Southampton" to Yarmouth.
Yarmouth to Swanage
Swanage to Portland Harbour
Portland Harbour to River Dart; possibly via Exemouth or Torquay.
A series of "day sails", leaving just before dawn and avoiding cold/dark nights.
Next week looks best - see page 25 at http://www.yachthavens.com/media/112980/lymington yh 2011 web handbook.pdf
20-30 knots of wind from WNW, W & WSW forecast so not good! Maybe I'll buy a road atlas...
 
You won't do Portland to Dart as a "day sail" at this time of year. It'll probably take 12 to 14 hrs and, in any event, the tides will dictate when you leave Portland to get round the Bill....but I suspect that you've worked that out already. :)
Don't forget Brixham as a possible alternative if you can't make it to the Dart in time. Night access to the Dart, Brixham and Torquay is reasonably straightforward but I wouldn't really want my first entry to the Exe to be at night.

Good luck with your trip. I envy you doing a trip at this time of year. ;)
 
A1Sailor said:
dry suits is another good one.
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The suggestion wasn't dry suits per se, but flotation suits (Fladen etc). They're like waterproofs (jacket and trousers) with a layer of closed-cell foam sewn into them. This adds buoyancy, and also a lot of insulation. Fishermen wear them a lot, and because they don't use fancy fabrics (no point making the outside breathable when there's half an inch of foam in the way) and don't have the "rich yottie" mark-up, they're relatively affordable. I don't own a set, but would probably look at buying some if I were doing this trip.

I did a delivery trip down the Baltic in February once, and I can't imagine your voyage will be colder than that (we had to get the local lifeboat to come and act as icebreaker to get the boats out of the first harbour). Yes it's chilly at night, but with the right gear it's perfectly doable. I took with me a neoprene face shield and googles, last used for skiing at -20ºC, but never needed them. Although I did come on watch one time to find the skipper had lashed a dinghy oar to the tiller and was steering from the cabin - sitting on the top step with eyes just peering over the hatch. A trick to keep up your sleeve, perhaps :)

Pete
 
I agree with generally keeping it to short trips and hopefully comfortable nights in port; however see below.

NB if weather rules out Studland, South Deep just inside Poole Harbour is a wonderful anchorage; if the fuel barge is still there just by Brownsea Island ( ? anyone ? ) it's very handy to top up petrol or diesel, also water & basic food etc.

Do be wary of Portland Race, and the mention of lobster pots in the inshore passage is no joke, they're a menace with the buoys often dragged just underwater by the current.

I'm not sure if you are singlehanded ? If with even a slightly trusty crew, I'd be tempted to some sailing in the dark, probably setting off from Studland and going outside Portland Race - nb this requires a favourable wind, but it's the way I always go now in my 22' boat ( though she's faster than most boats around that size ).

I certainly wouldn't hesitate to motor sail to keep up passage speed & time, so plenty of fuel is a must; an autopilot would be a godsend, have you got one ?

Have a good trip, well timed and avoiding any 'schedule' it should be good fun.
 
Rigger Mortice said:
You won't do Portland to Dart as a "day sail" at this time of year. It'll probably take 12 to 14 hrs and, in any event, the tides will dictate when you leave Portland to get round the Bill....but I suspect that you've worked that out already. :)
Don't forget Brixham as a possible alternative if you can't make it to the Dart in time. Night access to the Dart, Brixham and Torquay is reasonably straightforward but I wouldn't really want my first entry to the Exe to be at night.

Good luck with your trip. I envy you doing a trip at this time of year. ;)
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12 hours?! Weymouth to Torquay is 52 miles, and I did it in 6 1/2 hours in July with a little help from a spring tide . . . I do have a 46 foot waterline, but still - 12 hours from Portland would be like 4 knots. Surely he can do better than that. You shouldn't discourage him.
 
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