Solent to S Brittany, day sailing

[Twister_Ken]

UK coast to, maybe, Falmouth, then direct to L'Aberwrach for the Chenal du Four; or North Brittany via Cherbourg, Channel Is?

UK - less tides, easy approaches, beer

France - big tides, drying harbour approaches (I need 2.0 metres) more interesting pilotage, food.

Discuss

 

[Talulah]

UK coast to, maybe, Falmouth, then direct to L'Aberwrach for the Chenal du Four; or North Brittany via Cherbourg, Channel Is?

UK - less tides, easy approaches, beer

France - big tides, drying harbour approaches (I need 2.0 metres) more interesting pilotage, food.

Discuss

For Solent to S. Brittany day sailing it would be...
Gosport/Yarmouth to Cherbourg
Cherbourg to Sark or St Peters Port.
Then to L'Aberwrach
L'Aberwrach to Cameret

If you go down to Falmouth and then across there will be some night sailing involved.
I've done this trip several times. 1.9m draught.

For me it would be French Coast, french bread and ambience and away from South UK asap.

 

[Angele]

Can we have a bit more info?

Passage planning boat speed?
Which month (i.e. how long is the "day")?
How long have you got?

 

[Robin]

UK coast to, maybe, Falmouth, then direct to L'Aberwrach for the Chenal du Four; or North Brittany via Cherbourg, Channel Is?

UK - less tides, easy approaches, beer

France - big tides, drying harbour approaches (I need 2.0 metres) more interesting pilotage, food.

Discuss

Our route over 23 years has always favoured going south via UK side and home via the French side and Guernsey. Tides are much easier going west along the UK side and (topically) using Studland as a stopover you can take the inshore eddy to St Albans and have 8hrs of fair tide to get well into Lyme Bay. By contrast along the North Brittany coast going west you get less tide with you and more against (and it is stronger over there), whereas going east for home you get more with and less against. Having put the west in first you then have a good chance of laying L'Aberwrac'h or better still Chenal Du Four on one tack not even hard on the wind.

Our route from Poole planning at 6kts has been:-

Poole to Dartmouth. Leave from outside Poole or Studland 1.5hrs before HW Dover, stay well inshore along the coast to St Albans at about 45 mins before HWD then head 4mls off Portland before turning for Dartmouth. We used to say around 10 hours.

Dartmouth to Camaret, 144mls, actually took 22-23hrs (best was 21) by going directly straight through the Four. Going via L'Aberwrac'h (about 18hrs) wastes time because of the distance in/out of the river and that the Channel tide is still going east whilst the Four tide has turned south 2hrs earlier.

Camaret to somewhere around Benodet (we anchored outside in Anse De Trez) or Concarneau or most often Isles De Glenans on our way down. These are places to spend time, so decide which to 'visit' and which to use as a 'truck stop' going south and vice versa on the return. Some stop at Audierne, we only used it on the way back if the conditions for the Raz (Raz De Sein) were dodgy.

Glenans or wherever thence to Quiberon Bay, pick your destination from Port Haliguen, Port Du Couesty, Belle Isle, Isle D'Houat or La Trinite. That misses out Isle De Groix and Lorient.

Going home we went Camaret (or Morgat) to L'Aberwrac'h, even Audierne to L'Aberwrac'h (possible on a tide), then Perros Guirec (not at neaps) or Treguier. We don't like Trebeurden and it is expensive.

Treguier to Guernsey to Cherbourg (to re-enter the EU and avoid needing to clear UK customs) then Poole.

These were our transit routes. In between are so very many wonderful places to stop and spend time, depending on your time available.

 

[Sailfree]

UK coast to, maybe, Falmouth, then direct to L'Aberwrach for the Chenal du Four; or North Brittany via Cherbourg, Channel Is?

Discuss

Thanks for posing question as I am just considering this for 2 week holiday in July.

I would only comment unless you need to stock up with beer/wine I would leave out Cherbourg. Exit needles with the max tide and with the sailing speed of your Arcona you should shoot straight through Aldernay Race with the tide to Guernsey in some 15hrs. I agree with Robin regarding L'aber wrac'h but concerned that crew may not like 2 days of long sails. Once in a cruising area I find most crew prefer to sail one day and explore on shore 1 day.

Interested in what others would do , ports in S Brittany to visit if tied to only 2 weeks in addition to the Q Ken originally posed.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Can we have a bit more info?

Passage planning boat speed?
Which month (i.e. how long is the "day")?
How long have you got?

6 kts (but hopefully a bit faster)
June/July
3 weeks or so (leaving F when French school holidays start)

 

[Poignard]

Last year's cruise to the Golfe de Morbihan:-

Outbound: Gosport - Cherbourg - Sark - Port Blanc - visitor buoy at eastern end of Chenal de Batz - L'Abervrac'h - Ste Yvette - Loctudy - Port Manec'h - Isle Groix - Port Haliguen - Golfe de Morbihan (including Vannes - Auray)

Return: Le Crouesty - Port Louis - Port Manec'h - Ste Yvette - Camaret - L'Aber Benoit - visitor buoy at eastern end of Chenal de Batz - Perros Guirec - St Peter Port - Omonville - Cherbourg - Gosport

All done at a leisurely pace with no night sailing apart from some departures/arrivals in the dark. Plenty of meals ashore, walks, sightseeing, socialising etc.

Apart from my berth at Gosport, I don't think any of the above would present any difficulty for 2m draft.

 

[Angele]

6 kts (but hopefully a bit faster)
June/July
3 weeks or so (leaving F when French school holidays start)

I think it is a nice idea to do one leg along one coast and the return leg on the other so you don't end up with a sense of deja vu. Taking the earlier comment about more favorable westward tides on the English coast, therefore, head west initially.

Your outbound passage is near the longest day = 16 hours of daylight plus a bit of dawn/twilight. Falmouth to L'Aberwrac'h, at about 100nm, is therefore just about doable without any night sailing. That said, I'd probably cross Channel from further east. Salcombe to L'Aberwrac'h is only 10 miles more, but saves you a day (50nm) sailing from Salcombe to Falmouth.

I think that is where my plan would stop and the rest of it would be weather/mood dependant.

 

[Woodlouse]

I'd avoid L'aberwrach. It's not a very nice little ditch full of british boats that fail to realise that only two hours extra sailing will get you to Camaret.

I'd agree with your plan of going down to the west country first. No one really wants to go to Cherbourg on their holidays and the channel islands are full of huge and fast tides that can only cause unnecessary stress when they can easily be avoided. Plus they are worth a season to explore on their own.

Going from Falmouth to Camaret will be an overnight trip, but I'm sure you can handle one. Get a good wind and time the tide right and you could be across in 20 hours (personal best is 18, but going the other way).

Once in Brittany it's up to you. A trip up the Rade de Brest is good, though Brest it's self is a bit of a hole. Douarnenez is a nice town, and Morgat is worth a stop.

South of the Raz Concarneau is a pretty town. The Glenans are nice for a day sail. La Trinite is just a big marina but interesting if you want to see some of the big french speed machines.

Belle Isle and La Palais is a lovely spot, just try and avoid being there on a friday and saturday night as the harbour fills up completely to the point you can literally walk across the boats from one side to the other.

The Morbihan is pretty, but full of fast currents, rocks and most of the islands are privately owned and exploring ashore is frowned upon, so quite frustrating really in my opinion.

Audierne is useful when going back north if the north bound tide at the Raz is early in the morning. Starting from there you can quite comfortably get to Camaret in an easy day sail, or if you are pressed for time you can continue straight up the chanel du four and back to Falmouth on the same tide.

 

[Twister_Ken]

I was thinking of L'Aberwrach just as a short lay-over to get my entry time into the Chenal right (or to hole up if the weather goes titzup).

Is it sensible to make a long Channel crossing and time Chenal entry right (I'm averse to spending long periods motoring unless there's no real breeze at all)?

 

[davidfox]

I found North Britanny difficult for day sailing as the timings for the mostly lock accessed harbours/marinas didnt coincide with what I wanted to do, L'Aberwrach I personally quite liked, the chart looks a lot more alarming than it actually is. My preference for ease would be Falmouth and across, but for interest, Channel Islands and North Coast. Whether you go for L'Aberwrach or Cameret, will probably depend on the conditions, as long as you time the Raz for as near slack water as you can its all pretty straight forward. Benodet is worth a visit, but watch the tide in the river as it can be very strong.

 

[NPMR]

I was thinking of L'Aberwrach just as a short lay-over

Why go to the marina - it's OK but only ordinary? If you go upriver (hardly any distance at all) you come to Paluden and some really nice walks and a good restaurant and super (summer-only) creperie. Anchor in a calm bit of river or on a cheap visitor's mooring.

Or go "next door" to Abber Idult or Aber Benoit. Look difficult to enter but easy-peasy really.

L'Aber Wrach is 100nm from Falmouth and takes us 21-23 hours at 4+ kts. We prefer leaving mid-morning and overnighting the TRZ's - has been Ok for the last few years.

After that it's more about what weather you have and how many pubs you want to linger in!

 

[Robin]

I was thinking of L'Aberwrach just as a short lay-over to get my entry time into the Chenal right (or to hole up if the weather goes titzup).

Is it sensible to make a long Channel crossing and time Chenal entry right (I'm averse to spending long periods motoring unless there's no real breeze at all)?

That is the problem with L'Aberwrac'h, because it looks like a good idea, especially if coming along the North Brittany side. In practice you first have to get out of the river from the moorings/marina, then head west some 10mls against the wind probably to the top of the Four, but the tide is still bombing east until you get into the Four itself when it turns down south 2 hours earlier.

It is not too difficult to get the timings right for the Four going direct from the west country. Going through with the tide takes you say 2 hours, maybe less so you have 4hrs of 'spare' to play with in your timing. We would plan to arrive at the top as the tide turned south (at HW Brest) but leave Dartmouth (preferred kick off point) at 1.5hrs before HW Dover. That allowed us to be slow and average 5.5kts and still get through with the tide and if we averaged 6.5kts we would still get there just as it turned our way. If we average better than that then who cares about a bit of foul tide to start!

The tides in the Four are very fast in some places, but not all the way through. The tide along the bottom from Pointe St Mathieu to Camaret is not over quick, worst case 1kt.

Don't have any concerns about going through the Four at night, it is exceptionally well lit and easier than in daylight with white sector powerful lights to drive down. The Raz is also easy at night.

Worth noting however is that fog is a potential problem especially in the approaches to the Four (and the Raz) when the tide turns and cold waters get swept up from the deeps and meet a moist airflow up top. Entering L'Aberwrac'h in fog with a 4kt cross tide running and the leading line & marks invisible as you go between the reefs will surely test your confidence in your radar and GPS/plotter, without these don't even think about it!

Also worth noting is the swell, in French forecasts as 'La Houle' and this can be huge in the Four approaches, but quickly diminishes in the Four itself protected by Ushant.

L'Aberwrac'h is not well protected in northerlies and especially out on the buoys with wind over tide. The new marina has cross tides as well to be wary of and rafting on the outer bit is not a good idea except temporarily.

 

[Playtime]

If you've only got 3 weeks and you want to avoid any night sailing then you will have to push on every day to get the miles in. Portsmouth to the Morbihan is approx 400NM with suitable stops included. At 50 miles average per day this means 16 sailing days to get there and back, with no time for exploring or relaxing/recovering! I would suggest at least one overnight passage is essential to get the distance covered.

Having done the delivery trip several times I would recommend Salcombe to L'Aberwrac'h. As previously suggested there is little point in going as far west as Falmouth. Salcombe - L'Aberwrach is approx. 110 miles and takes around 18 hours @ 6 knots. If you leave at lunchtime you arrive off the French coast as it's getting light (and it's only properly dark for about 6 hours).

Salcombe - Camaret is 135 miles with the Four to negotiate when you are probably tired. If this is your first time I would recommend L'Aberwrac'h as a transit stop.

Thereafter, Camaret, Loctudy (or Benodet) and then slow down and enjoy - the delivery trip is over.

If you can take 2 holidays in the summer, you might consider leaving the boat in France during the height of the French holiday season - it does get a bit manic then. We have successfully left the boat over there for 4/5 weeks (mid July to mid August), once in La Rochelle (Flybe to Southampton) and once in Port La Foret (Hertz to Cherbourg). This year I am planning to leave the boat in Brest (Flybe to Southampton) and then cruise home gently along the north Brittany coast. This only makes (economic) sense, of course, if you can get a rebate on your UK berth (or you don't have a permanent berth).

 

[doug748]

UK coast to, maybe, Falmouth, then direct to L'Aberwrach for the Chenal du Four; or North Brittany via Cherbourg, Channel Is?

UK - less tides, easy approaches, beer

France - big tides, drying harbour approaches (I need 2.0 metres) more interesting pilotage, food.

Discuss

As others have pointed out, Fal / L'Aberwrach will not be a day sail so there is your glib answer.

However there are enough stops on the N Brittany coast not to have to visit anywhere twice. So your route there and back need not be repetitious. I rather like L,Aberwrach but don't go there for the night life. A visit means you can depart rested and ready to take the Four and Raz (bit far for your trip tho) in one shot.

The tides are handy for making 50 or 60 miles easily, as they serve, and then calling it a day. Very civilized.

 

[Chris_Robb]

Why go to the marina - it's OK but only ordinary? If you go upriver (hardly any distance at all) you come to Paluden and some really nice walks and a good restaurant and super (summer-only) creperie. Anchor in a calm bit of river or on a cheap visitor's mooring.

Or go "next door" to Abber Idult or Aber Benoit. Look difficult to enter but easy-peasy really.

L'Aber Wrach is 100nm from Falmouth and takes us 21-23 hours at 4+ kts. We prefer leaving mid-morning and overnighting the TRZ's - has been Ok for the last few years.

After that it's more about what weather you have and how many pubs you want to linger in!

I would agree entirely about the other Abbers. There is also more water than shown on the charts as they have been extensively dredging for sand. Go up the rivers a bit, there are always moorings free.

I also prefer doing the Falmouth bit first and go from Cawsands bay which is a delightful anchorage.

If you are too hard on the wind in Lyme bay, you could always drop off in Brixham in stead.

 

[rwoofer]

I usually deliver the boat to Falmouth on a weekend before and then would recommend going straight to Camaret. I've been Falmouth L'Aberwrach, but as Robin says there seems to be so little advantage to doing so.

Always done Falmouth-Camaret in daylight hours, so not really an overnight. I do however leave at the crack of dawn and arrive Camaret late in the evening. I've also hit the Chanel du Four with a foul tide, but with a good chartplotter you can hug the shoreline and get through without too much fuss. Next day sail is usually Camaret to Benodet, but you can't mess about with the tides around the Raz, so timing is more critical.

 

[Twister_Ken]

An overnight Channel crossing is no prob, just that Madame would prefer not to have 24h+ without recourse to a nice walk.

OTOH might just bog off direct to Brest with a couple of mates and put her on the plane.

 

[Poignard]

If you can take 2 holidays in the summer, you might consider leaving the boat in France during the height of the French holiday season - it does get a bit manic then. We have successfully left the boat over there for 4/5 weeks (mid July to mid August), once in La Rochelle (Flybe to Southampton) and once in Port La Foret (Hertz to Cherbourg).

I have been thinking of doing something like that this year because The Old Guvnor is beginning to get edgy if deprived of her golf and bridge for more than about 3 weeks at a time.

Have you been able to get a good discount for a few week's stay in French marinas, and cheap air [or ferry] fares when flying home?

 

[stav]

Great beliver in getting the boat somewhere and missus following afterwards. Vanne has good rail links with St Malo and a good website to buy tickets (not that I have but the missus and crew have) and not ridiculusly espensive. Have taken that option a couple of times.

My passage would be: Yarmouth>Studland anchor for next tide, catch tide to take me to Dartmouth, then Dart to L'Aber or go straight round if the four is right, there is a nice little anchorage S of Cameret, then Concarneau, then Vanne.

Homeward would be reverse to L'Aber, Treburden, Treguier, Guernsey, Weymouth, Solent.

I might add that since we have had our girls my lovely wife has given me a pass for 2 to 3 weeks to go of for a blokie sail each year and whilst I invariably want to go to Ireland I have found I enjoy a shorter good sail rather than a long motor or a nighmare bash 100% on the nose. Just a thought and one you know already I am sure!