Solent - origin of the name

[Gavi]

I wonder if someone on this forum can help me close a pub debate, one that google is not helping with either.

The question really is in the title - does anyone know the origin of the name "The Solent", please?

 

[Badger]

First recorded in 731 as Soluente, Solent is "an ancient pre-English name of uncertain origin and meaning.

 

[sarabande]

a solent is an intermediate jib used on large sailing ships - perhaps the area where such a sail is used for safe navigation ?

Oxford Dictionary of English Place-Names, 2nd ed. (Oxford University Press, 1998: ISBN 0192800744), p. 318.

"an ancient pre-English name of uncertain origin and meaning." First recorded in 731 as "Soluente"


Doesn't help much, sorry

EDIT damn, beaten by the Badger....

 

[Giblets]

I seem to recall a tv programme some years ago that mentioned a "River Solent" before the IOW became separated from the mainland.

Edit:
Yep, there you go. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solent

 

[royal]

It was "Coast". Saw an old repeat the other day, and it was the River Solent.

 

[dt4134]

It was "Coast". Saw an old repeat the other day, and it was the River Solent.

Although I suspect that name was derived recently from the Solent rather than the other way around.

 

[l'escargot]

I wonder if someone on this forum can help me close a pub debate, one that google is not helping with either.

The question really is in the title - does anyone know the origin of the name "The Solent", please?

"The Solent" took it's name from the "River Solent" that rose somewhere in Somerset came down through Poole, picked up with the Stour and Avon and exited somewhere south of Brighton. The Isle of Wight was not an island in those times and was part of a ridge of land that continued down from Swanage. Can't help with the origin of the actual name "Solent" though.

 

[Evadne]

I'm not sure that the name has survived since those times, i.e. the end of the last ice age, which would have been before writing as we know it developed.

 

[l'escargot]

I'm not sure that the name has survived since those times, i.e. the end of the last ice age, which would have been before writing as we know it developed.

It was probably given the name Solent subsequently like most things - Dinosaurs didn't have a name when they were around as there weren't any humans to give them one either, but we all know what a dinosaur is now

 

[Gavi]

Thank you..

.. all for your replies. If I conclude correctly, people have been discussing this in bars since 731AD yet no-one has known the answer. A great mystery

 

[ChrisE]

I always thought that it was named after Puerto Solento......

 

[haydude]

I wonder if someone on this forum can help me close a pub debate, one that google is not helping with either.

The question really is in the title - does anyone know the origin of the name "The Solent", please?

Given that the Romans have been there, it might have a Latin origin in which case the etymology could be linked to:

Solus (=alone, solitary)

But also "sol" in Latin means "sun" in English and "Solent" could be an adjective meaning "sunny"

Although "Solent" in Latin is also an adverb meaning "use to ..." (... do or say or make something) which gave the origin to the Italian "Solente" meaning "often it happens ..." (... that ...)

I hope this helps.

 

[observator]

1. According to book "Europa Vasconica, Europa Semitica" by Theo Vennemann (pages 511 - 512)

the name of the strait "the Solent"

may be traced as far as pre-Celtic and supposedly Semitoidic root 's-l-' ' meaning 'rock' or rather 'free standing rock' which could be good description of a cliff marking westernmost part of the strait

plus Semitic plural "-im" (certainly in Hebrew but Vannemann's book claims it for Punic language, too).

If the case is true, so the original name would sound somewhat like

"Solu'im" = "cliffs, rocks".

The modern Arabic language has a sound called "glottal stop" which could be a cousin or even similar to the apostrophe in the name "Solu'im".

The case is very possible if we admit that Semitic (and at least Punic) people sailed to Britain to get tin in Cornwall. It was in Bronze Age - long before Celtic colonization of British Isles.

2. On my own I believe also that

the letter/letters 't' in the modern "Solent" or 'te' in the "Soluente" (cited in 731 according to Wikipedia)

could be derived from plural 'd' and 'où' of the Celtic languages - as attested in modern Welsh and Breton.

According to the paper "On Breton pluralization" by Marijke De Belder (of Utrecht University):

"When marked for plural number, many Breton nouns can have either one or two plural morphems (Trépos 1957)...
[eg.:]

A. merc'h = 'girl',

B. merc'h-ed = 'girls',

C. merc'h-ed-où = 'girls'.

"

In addition in Welsh we find the plural suffix '-ed', too, eg.:

'merch' = 'daughter',

'merched' = 'daughters'.

Hence there is possible that the name "Solent" is simply of origin from Celticized name with double or even treble pluralization (it sometimes happens in different languages).

3. Hence the supposed - yet quite probable - origin of the name "Solent" is similar to:

s-l-' + -im + -ed

or even

s-l-' + -im + -ed + -ou

and in consequence could sound somewhat as "solu'imed", though maybe we are completely unable to get right sound.

Actually, I am certain we are unable to find any possible pre-Semitoidic sound or meaning for "Solent" as any traces of this supposed language are very scarce and doubtful,

though quite prably it could be anything similar to modern Basconic.

 

[alant]

Given that the Romans have been there, it might have a Latin origin in which case the etymology could be linked to:

Solus (=alone, solitary)

But also "sol" in Latin means "sun" in English and "Solent" could be an adjective meaning "sunny"

Although "Solent" in Latin is also an adverb meaning "use to ..." (... do or say or make something) which gave the origin to the Italian "Solente" meaning "often it happens ..." (... that ...)

I hope this helps.

Think the river Solent, was a bit before the Romans.

 

[sighmoon]

Although "Solent" in Latin is also an adverb meaning "use to ..." (... do or say or make something) which gave the origin to the Italian "Solente" meaning "often it happens ..." (... that ...)

Would that go with a usage like 'frequent high tide'?

 

[macd]

Dinosaurs didn't have a name when they were around as there weren't any humans to give them one either, but we all know what a dinosaur is now

...and when we did give them a name, we gave them the wrong one. Terrible lizards they're not.

And as you and Evadne write, it's self-evident that if The Solent was named after the River Solent, Worcestershire was named after the sauce.

 

[mobeydick]

"The Book of the Solent" (Drummond/McInnes) has about half a page on this subject:

Bede mentions 'Soluente' in AD730 and 'Solentan' is in a Saxon document in AD948. Nothing in Domesday, but 'Le Soland' in AD1395.

The study of English place names by Ekwall associates Old English 'sol' with 'a muddy place for animals', but also the 'sol' in Solway Firth as being due to the congregating of the Northern Gannet there, which is also know as the Solan Goose. Apparently still found in significant numbers in the Solent, I imagine the flocks may have been substantial in the 8th century....


MD

 

[Blueboatman]

Re Observator:
I think that your post is quite possibly the single most intelligent , thought provoking and expansive post that I have enjoyed reading on this forum in nigh on ten years here..
Not so much an answer as a linguistic insight and primer for more reading...is that really your first post ? Welcome!

Ta muchly indeedy!

 

[lpdsn]

It's actually a contraction of Insolvent, which is short for "I own a boat and keep it in't Solent."

 

[rob13]

Given that the Romans have been there, it might have a Latin origin in which case the etymology could be linked to:

Solus (=alone, solitary)

But also "sol" in Latin means "sun" in English and "Solent" could be an adjective meaning "sunny"

Although "Solent" in Latin is also an adverb meaning "use to ..." (... do or say or make something) which gave the origin to the Italian "Solente" meaning "often it happens ..." (... that ...)

I hope this helps.

Not at all. The Italian term is "sovente" (often). How do I know? I'm Italian and I know Latin. "Solent" in English means: "a narrow channel of the sea joining two larger bodies of water." "Solente" in Italian comes from "sole" (sun) and it means "sunny".