Solar set up

[stu9000]

My wind charger stopped working in the last storm so I'm looking at solar.
Assuming it gets delivered, could I get help with finalising this set up.

Two 150w polycrystalline rigid panels.
I had my eyes on these
150W Solar Panel - BFPANEL150

I'm going with poly because, apparently, they work better in shaded conditions than mono.
I am planning to rig in parallel for the same reason.
Each panel will be located on side of pushpit as I don't have an arch, and don't want one.

40 amp PWM charge controller.
10A-60A PWM Solar Panel Regulator Charge Controller 12V/24V Auto Focus Tracking/ | eBay

I've gone with PWM because genuine mppt seems to be £100+ and I'm on a budget.
There are £40 mppt controllers on ebay but I'm doubtful they're really MPPT. Am I right?

Will 40 amp be enough for a parallel set up?
What guage wire should I be using?

Thank you.

S

 

[Graham376]

Yes 40 amp controller is more than enough, 30 would do. Personally, I wouldn't go for that one as (unless I'm missing something) battery charging parameters most likely can't be user defined. Decent controllers such as Victron MPPT are worth the considerable extra money.

 

[differentroads]

Agree with Graham that 30A will be sufficient and that you'd find that an MPPT controller will make a worthwhile difference. I have both types installed and I'm reasonably sure MPPT are worthwhile. You could consider buying smaller panels and rebalencing your budget that way.
My setup is an 80W mono panel on each side of the pulpit wired in parallel to a Victron 15A MPPT controller feeding my 450Ah domestic batteries. They are mounted on the £80 a pair fancy hinges (I ran out of time to make my own!)
I also have a 50W semi-flexible poly panel on a wander lead that I can hang on the guard rails or in the rigging to add a couple of amps. Its controlled by the old PWM controller.
We liveaboard in the Med and I find that 210W is giving us up to 2 weeks on the hook away from mains charging and without using the engine. That's just been reinforced last week when I realised that its 2 weeks in the marina since I had the mains charger on.
We have pretty basic electrical needs mind you, small fridge, no freezer, 4 fans but no aircon, no telly but 2 mobiles and 2 tablets that need charging every day. Your consumption might be much higher or battery capacity lower, but I'd calculated that we should need 300W of solar and found we need only 2/3 of that. That will partly have come from the efficiency gain of MPPT.

 

[Pete7]

Stu, shame your going for 2 x 150w panels, because there are some astonishing deals on larger panels if you can mount them. Also I am not sure the argument that poly is still relevant, I have always bought mono which have" done what it says on the panel". Will Prowse on You Tube did some testing which might be worth watching. Your panel link says they are mono panels but are cheaper via Wido directly.

How about this for a MPPT 20A solar controller rather than PWM:

20A 12v/24v MPPT charge Controller - EPever XTRA 2210N - 100VOC PV - LCD Meter

Or the 30A version, though I hear the bit about a budget. However, Victron are very popular on yachts so lots of information about them. We have the Victron 20/100 with 300w.

30A 12v--24v MPPT charge Controller - EPever XTRA 3215N - 150VOC PV - LCD Meter

Who are ManoMano? can you find an address on their website to contact if it goes pear shaped? They appear to just be middle men with no stock and just take a cut from someone else. That would worry me.

Pete

 

[Jamie Dundee]

I’ve always had very good service from these people 12V solar panels charging kits for caravans, motorhomes, boats, yachts, marine

Go for an MPPT controller, much better performance.

 

[Laminar Flow]

We have 300W in 6 x 50W individual domestic mono panels. The reason for smaller individual panels is that this set-up is better at dealing with the shading issues on a sailing vessel. This we hooked up to a Tracer 40 MPPT controller as offered on the site the previous poster listed. I chose the larger charger to provide room for upgrading the array, if needed.
We've had this arrangement for three years now, with the panels mounted on the wheelhouse roof. During the summer months and into late fall (Holland, Baltic, Britanny), we have not had to run the engine or the generator to charge, even when off-grid for weeks at a time. Fridge, lights, water pump, Webasto, device charging.
It has been plug&play & forget.

 

[stu9000]

We have 300W in 6 x 50W individual domestic mono panels. The reason for smaller individual panels is that this set-up is better at dealing with the shading issues on a sailing vessel. This we hooked up to a Tracer 40 MPPT controller as offered on the site the previous poster listed. I chose the larger charger to provide room for upgrading the array, if needed.
We've had this arrangement for three years now, with the panels mounted on the wheelhouse roof. During the summer months and into late fall (Holland, Baltic, Britanny), we have not had to run the engine or the generator to charge, even when off-grid for weeks at a time. Fridge, lights, water pump, Webasto, device charging.
It has been plug&play & forget.

Interesting. Are these wired in series? I thought that meant shading brought all of the panels down.

 

[stu9000]

Stu, shame your going for 2 x 150w panels, because there are some astonishing deals on larger panels if you can mount them. Also I am not sure the argument that poly is still relevant, I have always bought mono which have" done what it says on the panel". Will Prowse on You Tube did some testing which might be worth watching. Your panel link says they are mono panels but are cheaper via Wido directly.

How about this for a MPPT 20A solar controller rather than PWM:

20A 12v/24v MPPT charge Controller - EPever XTRA 2210N - 100VOC PV - LCD Meter

Or the 30A version, though I hear the bit about a budget. However, Victron are very popular on yachts so lots of information about them. We have the Victron 20/100 with 300w.

30A 12v--24v MPPT charge Controller - EPever XTRA 3215N - 150VOC PV - LCD Meter

Who are ManoMano? can you find an address on their website to contact if it goes pear shaped? They appear to just be middle men with no stock and just take a cut from someone else. That would worry me.

Pete

Thanks for the links.
My links were the result of a quick search. I hear what you say about middle men, especially at the moment.

Everyone seems to cite the mppt controller as better performance but Will Prowse vid suggests the same amps...

 

[stu9000]

Agree with Graham that 30A will be sufficient and that you'd find that an MPPT controller will make a worthwhile difference. I have both types installed and I'm reasonably sure MPPT are worthwhile. You could consider buying smaller panels and rebalencing your budget that way.
My setup is an 80W mono panel on each side of the pulpit wired in parallel to a Victron 15A MPPT controller feeding my 450Ah domestic batteries. They are mounted on the £80 a pair fancy hinges (I ran out of time to make my own!)
I also have a 50W semi-flexible poly panel on a wander lead that I can hang on the guard rails or in the rigging to add a couple of amps. Its controlled by the old PWM controller.
We liveaboard in the Med and I find that 210W is giving us up to 2 weeks on the hook away from mains charging and without using the engine. That's just been reinforced last week when I realised that its 2 weeks in the marina since I had the mains charger on.
We have pretty basic electrical needs mind you, small fridge, no freezer, 4 fans but no aircon, no telly but 2 mobiles and 2 tablets that need charging every day. Your consumption might be much higher or battery capacity lower, but I'd calculated that we should need 300W of solar and found we need only 2/3 of that. That will partly have come from the efficiency gain of MPPT.

My set up is similar. 550ah powering led lights, small fridge, eber, instruments and various tablets and phones. I'm in the Thames Estuary so perhaps I'll get fewer amps. I was looking at 100 Watt panels but wanted a bit more oomph. Maybe I'll scale back from 150w panels to get the mppt.

 

[Laminar Flow]

Interesting. Are these wired in series? I thought that meant shading brought all of the panels down.

Hi, no, they're not and for that reason. That requires heavier gauge lines, but my runs are fairly short. Additionally each panel has a separation diode so that it has two individual fields, giving me 12 separate sections. We have a ketch rig and something will always cast a shadow. I used to tie the boom out of the way, but the system is so efficient (and I'm so lazy) that I do not bother anymore.

 

[temptress]

Get an MPPT controller....its a false economy to have anything else.

 

[Kelpie]

I understand the benefits of MPPT and will be installing one on our new boat, but just wanted to say that for the past 4yrs+ I've been using a cheap PWM similar to what the OP is considering and it's been faultless. This is just for a 50w panel, it was minimal spend but does a surprisingly good job.

 

[LONG_KEELER]

Thanks for the links.
My links were the result of a quick search. I hear what you say about middle men, especially at the moment.

Everyone seems to cite the mppt controller as better performance but Will Prowse vid suggests the same amps...

Well ! That was a stunning result of PWM versus MPPT .

Thanks for posting.

 

[differentroads]

Well ! That was a stunning result of PWM versus MPPT .

Thanks for posting.

Similarly impressed and appreciated the link. I admit now to a tinge of buyers remorse splashing out on Victron mppt, including being irked at the small and fragile connection points. But I recall being convinced about mppt charge controllers by a PBO article comparing them in a similar manner and concluding that the 10% or higher gain from mppt controllers, including enabling series connection and thus lower power loss and greater resiliance when partly shaded. I can't find the article online. This is helpful though
Solar Panels - everything you need to know! - Practical Boat Owner

 

[LittleSister]

Who are ManoMano? can you find an address on their website to contact if it goes pear shaped? They appear to just be middle men with no stock and just take a cut from someone else. That would worry me.

I may be mistaken, but I think ManoMano has poor feedback, especially in the last few months, on Amazon and/or eBay. They were one of a couple of companies supplying a tool I was looking up a few days ago. Unfortunately I can't find the link now. Apologies to the company and OP if I'm mistaken, but definitely worth checking.

 

[Graham376]

But I recall being convinced about mppt charge controllers by a PBO article comparing them in a similar manner and concluding that the 10% or higher gain from mppt controllers, including enabling series connection and thus lower power loss and greater resiliance when partly shaded.

Series panels lose more output than parallel when partly shaded. Test here -

 

[VicS]

Everyone seems to cite the mppt controller as better performance but Will Prowse vid suggests the same amps...

Well ! That was a stunning result of PWM versus MPPT .

Thanks for posting.

Similarly impressed and appreciated the link. I

At first the Video looks good but the power readings quoted are clearly limited by the battery size and state of charge.

One might expect a little more power would be available. from the PWM controllers. Maybe not much and difficult to estimate without any knowledge of the solar panel specs.

The MPPT controllers should, however, be able to deliver significantly more than the 70 watts or so quoted getting much closer to the 100 watt max power rating of the solar panels,

The comparison tests must be done with a load which does not limit the power. Either a much larger and partly discharged battery or a battery with a load on it to soak up the maximum power that the solar system could deliver.

 

[Kelpie]

I'm planning to build a solar bimini using large domestic panels, with something lightweight and rigid as an in-fill (the shape is trapezoidal).
I'm thinking of using 'dibond' as the infill, as it is very light and quite easy to work with. It is also totally impervious to UV or water. Amazingly, it costs about the same per m2 as the solar panels do! But I'm struggling to think of another suitable material.
So I could use two panels (600w total) and a 40A MPPT charge controller, or for a lower total cost use three panels and a 60A PWM controller. I would wire the panels in parallel.
Surely the benefits of MPPT are not great enough to outweigh a 50% increase in panel output?
The only other downside is the extra weight- 55kg of solar panels up above head height.

 

[Pete7]

That's a lot of weight. Lifting and bolting in place our 300w single panel up onto an arch whilst the boat bobbed around was tricky.
300w panels are available with 60 cells, so output 33v at about 9A. Step this down with a MPPT and allow the magic to work. The 33v means you can use 6mm cable with minimal loss to the MPPT and then shorter heavier cable to the bus bars for the battery bank. That would bring the weight down to 36kgs for a pair of panels.

300w Delta Black (All Black) Solar Panel - High Efficiency - New ! | eBay

 

[Kelpie]

Thanks for the link, that's basically the same type of panel I am looking at (although I'm considering GWL who are about half that price).
Two panels, a big sheet of dibond, and a 40A MPPT controller works out about £460 and 36kg.
Three panels and a 60A PWM controller comes to about £420 and 55kg.
It is very very tempting to go with the extra panel...