Soft shackles

[bbg]

Keep getting tempted to try a couple of low Friction Rings/Round Thimbles...

When I did a transatlantic race, some of the top boats used low friction rings exclusively, in place of blocks, even for things like backstay and vang cascades. The only places blocks appeared on the boats were the halyard sheaves at the top of the masts, exits for the halyards at the bottom, and reefing points at the ends of the booms. Everything else was a low friction ring. They are simple and they work, especially with dyneema.

 

[snooks]

When I did a transatlantic race, some of the top boats used low friction rings exclusively, in place of blocks, even for things like backstay and vang cascades. The only places blocks appeared on the boats were the halyard sheaves at the top of the masts, exits for the halyards at the bottom, and reefing points at the ends of the booms. Everything else was a low friction ring. They are simple and they work, especially with dyneema.

I've replaced my Genoa cars with LF rings so I can adjust the sheeting angle from the cockpit with the pull of a line, I have 8:1 purchase and it works like a dream. Look out for a feature about it in the magazine soon :0)

I also use them for turning blocks for my code zero. Turning block = £40 Vs Friction ring and knotted loop of Dyneema = £9 :0)

 

[Greenheart]

Making the loop much smaller, tieing the knot in the tail last, should make it completely secure

Thanks Vic, I see.

I've used bowlines on all my boat sheets since 1970, never had one come undone.

No idea why a bowline didn't occur to me immediately.

When I did a transatlantic race...the only places blocks appeared on the boats were the halyard sheaves at the top of the masts, exits for the halyards at the bottom, and reefing points at the ends of the booms. Everything else was a low friction ring. They are simple and they work, especially with dyneema.

I've always felt deep affection for blocks, especially the slick bearing type...but the possibility of substituting something so simple and tough as a low-friction ring, is dazzling.

Is their slipperiness something superficial which will eventually wear off, or is it an intrinsic characteristic of the metal?

 

[Seajet]

I guess you use titanium shackles then ?

Titanium can be nasty brittle stuff, I only use it for heat shields around the cooker, and flat low stress backing pads; but I suppose chemists aren't taught that ?

Shrouds are usually at the sides of the boat - so subject to abrasion when alongside other boats, walls or all the other things a boat is likely to encounter.

 

[vyv_cox]

One small correction to Snooks' post #5. I have now been using the same Dyneema shackle to connect genoa sheets to the sail for six years. Our genoa winches are Gibb 52 and although old age has whittled my strength to some extent I reckon I still wind them on fairly tight upwind in F4-5. The colour of the shackle cover has faded to a paler blue than it was but there is no sign that its strength or diameter have changed at all.

 

[Rivers & creeks]

How strong are they after a year in sunlight and / or a bit of chafe and salt crystals ...?

YM leads from the front. Only about 5,370 items on soft shackles previously posted on Youtube.

I wonder if there will be any citations ?

What a pair of grumpy pants. Thanks for the video Graham, I wanted to try a couple of these but it looked too difficult. Not all of us are born knowing everything, I was born knowing almost nothing and I haven't learnt much since so this was very helpful.

 

[Daydream believer]

and here's a method of attaching a headsail sheet directly to the sail without bowlines or shackles of any kind.

Loop goes through the cringle. knotted tail goe s through the loop

I think that this is the best method for genoa sheets, except that if the cringle is anything but tight for the sheet loop the tail needs to be as thick as the sheet at least, as the thin line may well just pull back through the cringle, in spite of the small knot.

 

[GHA]

He's an alternative to the diamond knot. Apparently 230% of line strength or 50% more than a diamond knot:


http://www.bethandevans.com/load.htm

 

[Ceirwan]

No !
As for soft rope ' shackles ' please demonstrate how they're as resistant to chafe as stainless wire and not just trendy or an easy idea for people who can't measure standing rigging ?

1. They're not. But they are highly resistant to chafe. It doesn't matter in every application.
2. What does measuring standing rigging have to do with using a shackle? We aren't talking about using then for making the shrouds longer, but for any application that an ordinary shackle was fitted. (Presumably by someone else who couldn't measure)

Not using through preference is one thing, but your attempts to belittle anyone who wants do something different than yourself are getting old now.

 

[Tranona]

Other people are trained engineers and use modern technology at it's best, rather than succumbing to trendy BS...

Always best to find out what you are talking about before opening your mouth. If you had bothered to read the article you would have found all the answers to your questions - and discovered that you are talking nonsense. Irrelevant to claim you are a "trained engineer" - you can still talk nonsense.

 

[snooks]

Always best to find out what you are talking about before opening your mouth.

You are aware this is the YBW forum, aren't you?

Since when has anyone sought to find out what they are talking about before putting fingers to keyboard

 

[Tranona]

You are aware this is the YBW forum, aren't you?

Since when has anyone sought to find out what they are talking about before putting fingers to keyboard

Well, most people at least try - or keep quiet if they don't know! and apologise if they get it wrong.

However some people will never admit, despite all the evidence to the contrary, and even dig themselves deeper.

Still, if there weren't people like that you would have to invent them.

 

[snooks]

He's an alternative to the diamond knot. Apparently 230% of line strength or 50% more than a diamond knot

Typical, we run oodles of pages in the magazine about soft shackles, and there's one design we didn't try. :0)

However on that link it says:
"Improved soft shackle: The conventional soft shackles all break at the diamond knot. So the question to explore was: is there an easy to tie replacement for the diamond that is stronger? "

However, in many cases during our tests, of ties and commercially available shackles, it wasn't the knot that failed. Often it was the loop that the knot passes through which let go first.

We had a soft shackle with a diamond knot fail at 4 tonnes, the break load of the line was 1.9 tonnes...

 

[Rivers & creeks]

your attempts to belittle anyone who wants do something different than yourself are getting old now.

I think that ship may already have sailed......

 

[Seajet]

Always best to find out what you are talking about before opening your mouth. If you had bothered to read the article you would have found all the answers to your questions - and discovered that you are talking nonsense. Irrelevant to claim you are a "trained engineer" - you can still talk nonsense.

You can talk BS all you like; as I mentioned shrouds are near the boat sides so susceptible to chafe, let alone U/V.

 

[snooks]

You can talk BS all you like; as I mentioned shrouds are near the boat sides so susceptible to chafe, let alone U/V.

And that has to do with soft shackles how exactly....?

Shrouds should be attached with clevis pins and split pins or you could use lashings, but not shackles. Are you sure you're not confusing soft shackles with Dyneema lashings?

 

[Yeasty]

I love them, easy and satisfying to make although a good tight diamond knot takes practice. I pull the knot tight using the hole in the end of an adjustable spanner and a some mole grips levering one against the other. I have made some to replace my main sail lashing and they slide up and down like a dream, and I have a pair attached to each shroud chain plate for when I use the kicker as a preventer, less obtrusive and easier to rig.

 

[Daydream believer]

You can talk BS all you like; as I mentioned shrouds are near the boat sides so susceptible to chafe, let alone U/V.

Not always the case , I can walk outside mine & still be on the boat.
It is amazing how many of our squib fleet have to replace shrouds because the wires have let go( shredded wires) due to rocking of the mast when on the moorings( about 3 boats per year). Not sure that would happen with dynema
Certainly it does not seem to happen with the dynema component of the adjustable backstay, but did with the old wire version. Not sure that proves anything but one has to ask the question.
I have also seen numerous SS shackles come undone but no dynema ones -yet- but that may be due to quantity involved.
I have also seen a number of broken SS shackles - possibly of dubious far eastern origin- but as yet no dynema shackles broken, but surely some must break from time to time.Certainly manufacturers seem to have solved the UV problem & dynema does not kink in the same way wire does

 

[Tranona]

You can talk BS all you like; as I mentioned shrouds are near the boat sides so susceptible to chafe, let alone U/V.

What has that got to do with soft shackles?

Several people who know far more about the subject than you (or I) have stated quite clearly that Dyneema is stronger size for size than stainless wire, highly chafe resistant and UV resistant. Never, ever seen chafe of shrouds as an issue.

Why are you making things up that have no basis in fact?

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

I have never used Low Friction Rings, however, they appear to be simple, light and a good alternative to blocks for certain places. I will make a point of installing few to find out how good and practical they can be; its always fun trying something different despite of the outcome.