Soft shackles

[snooks]

Re: Soft shackles [Video]

Does the article give details of how much line you need with thicker Dyneema, and if you need a longer loop?

Excellent video BTW, very clear.

You'll need around 11in/28cm of tail to tie the knot in 5mm (so 22in/48cm of the total length) Less with thinner (3mm requires around half), more with thicker, then 2 x (1.4 x the loop circumference) - If that makes sense? or 1.4 times double the loop circumference, of the loop of the shackle you'd like to make. After making a few you'll see where the line to make the loop comes from and you can adjust that accordingly.

 

[bbg]

Not compared to stainless steel, I'm willing to bet !

Do you believe that anything invented / built / developed after the Harrier has any merit?

 

[Seajet]

I like it...but what stops the knotted tail coming out again, just as easily, as the cringle flaps?

My genoa sheets (one long line) were tied by an infernally tight and rope-hungry knot, when I bought the boat. I never undid it (three years) until I laundered the line last autumn...

...so now I'm hoping to find the least bulky way to attach it to the cringle. There's every opportunity for a bulky knot to jam somewhere...is a soft shackle the answer?

I've used bowlines on all my boat sheets since 1970, never had one come undone.

Having said that, I'd NEVER use a bowline knot on safety harness lines - we tried that in the pre-Fastnet days when harness lines were regarded as mad curiousities, and the knots fell apart just sitting in the cockpit...

 

[JumbleDuck]

Having said that, I'd NEVER use a bowline knot on safety harness lines - we tried that in the pre-Fastnet days when harness lines were regarded as mad curiousities, and the knots fell apart just sitting in the cockpit...

Double figure-of-eight with a safety half hitch for that, if I ever need one, like what the climbers use.

 

[VicS]

I like it...but what stops the knotted tail coming out again, just as easily, as the cringle flaps?

My genoa sheets (one long line) were tied by an infernally tight and rope-hungry knot, when I bought the boat. I never undid it (three years) until I laundered the line last autumn...

...so now I'm hoping to find the least bulky way to attach it to the cringle. There's every opportunity for a bulky knot to jam somewhere...is a soft shackle the answer?

It has not done that,
A shorter loop and a bulkier knot in the tail ( double overhand ??) would both help to make it more secure.

Making the loop much smaller, tieing the knot in the tail last, should make it completely secure

 

[Seajet]

Do you believe that anything invented / built / developed after the Harrier has any merit?

No !

for a start the F-35 has supersonic exhaust gas problems - and I could quote much more skilled people than me saying so...

As for soft rope ' shackles ' please demonstrate how they're as resistant to chafe as stainless wire and not just trendy or an easy idea for people who can't measure standing rigging ?

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

I make my own soft shackle, it costs pennies and takes little time, over a cup of coffee while watching tv. I use them on my 46 year old boat as much as possible; they are robust, strong and convenient as you can bent them, pull them and squash them into a shape; they dont seem to wear out either.

 

[snooks]

As for soft rope ' shackles ' please demonstrate how they're as resistant to chafe as stainless wire and not just trendy or an easy idea for people who can't measure standing rigging ?

If you can't see the benefits of them by now, how about you throw a bucket of soft shackles at me, and I'll throw a bucket of stainless steel shackles with the same break load at you? :0)

 

[VicS]

If you can't see the benefits of them by now, how about you throw a bucket of soft shackles at me, and I'll throw a bucket of stainless steel shackles with the same break load at you? :0)

A duel. Shackles at dawn. I like it

Be sure to post the date time and place for this contest.

 

[Javelin]

Dyneema is really good stuff, I've been using it for more and more stuff on board.
The YM tests appear to be based around 5mm dyneema but remember you can get small and bigger dia and the process is exactly the same.
For example a soft loop out of 8mm would be good for almost 8 or 9 tons compared to the 2 or 3tons from 5mm.
I used to use 2mm dyneema for the trapeze wires on my racing dinghy and my crew was 18 stone.

Plus before you poo poo the weight saving at the top of the mast, on my boat for every kg that is reduced aloft I effectively gain 5kg on the end of my keel.

 

[onesea]

I bought a a Selma splicing kit afew years back.. I have been using Soft shackles here and there since (great security in zps at airports)...

I spliced eyes to the end of my braded jib sheets and use Dynema Soft shackle for attachment. Never come undone never hurt anyone, does not snag quick and easy allot less bulk on the clue than Bowlines.
I can confirm being hit by a loose clue with:
A shackle really hurts and leaves gash and bruise :ambivalence:
Bowlines can leave a healthy bruise :nonchalance:
Soft Shackle well it can bruise if you try hard enough

I was going to put splices on my fenders until one got dropped (by me ) and if we had splices we would not of got the grip with a boat hook, the bowlines stayed

Keep getting tempted to try a couple of low Friction Rings/Round Thimbles...

Although they almost seem like step backwards, I guess there is a limit to how much we can adapt to new technology... LOL...

 

[bbg]

No !

for a start the F-35 has supersonic exhaust gas problems - and I could quote much more skilled people than me saying so...

As for soft rope ' shackles ' please demonstrate how they're as resistant to chafe as stainless wire and not just trendy or an easy idea for people who can't measure standing rigging ?

They don't need to be more resistant to chafe than stainless steel wire. They need to be suitable for whatever application they are used for. No more, no less.

Technology has moved on since the 1960s, you know. Most people see the benefits of taking advantage of it.

 

[Seajet]

They don't need to be more resistant to chafe than stainless steel wire. They need to be suitable for whatever application they are used for. No more, no less.

Technology has moved on since the 1960s, you know. Most people see the benefits of taking advantage of it.

Other people are trained engineers and use modern technology at it's best, rather than succumbing to trendy BS...

 

[VicS]

Other people are trained engineers and use modern technology at it's best, rather than succumbing to trendy BS...

I guess you use titanium shackles then ?

 

[Javelin]

The simple fact is Soft Shackles are an option, take it or leave it.
There are so many other systems on a sailing boat each with numerous solutions.
Eventually folk come round once the adoption gains momentum, look at jib furlers compared to hank on, loose footed mains, lazy jacks etc
I work in a yard full of traditionalists who insist that many modern solutions "are not in keeping", the fact that its not as good is not really a factor.
My challenge is to introduce modern efficient systems and make them fit, whether its teak sidewall epoxied onto mast clutch's, buff coloured trad looking halyards with dyneema cores, varnished wooden cheeked blocks but with high load ball bearing sheaves.

Low friction rings are another solution that I use but boy they are difficult to sell to a owner of a pre 80's cruiser despite the advantages, I guess soft shackles will also be a hard sell for a few seasons to come.

 

[GHA]

Re: Soft shackles [Video]

Does the article give details of how much line you need with thicker Dyneema, and if you need a longer loop?

Excellent video BTW, very clear.

This might help..

http://l-36.com/soft_shackle_howto.php

 

[GHA]

and I could As for soft rope ' shackles ' please demonstrate how they're as resistant to chafe as stainless wire and not just trendy or an easy idea for people who can't measure standing rigging ?

Stronger and lighter with less stretch than steel wire rope with same dia , chafe and uv doesn't really come into it, dyneema will rip something off your boat before it breaks. Trendy as in polyester is trendy next to hemp.

 

[GHA]

For example a soft loop out of 8mm would be good for almost 8 or 9 tons compared to the 2 or 3tons from 5mm.
I used to use 2mm dyneema for the trapeze wires on my racing dinghy and my crew was 18 stone.

Plus before you poo poo the weight saving at the top of the mast, on my boat for every kg that is reduced aloft I effectively gain 5kg on the end of my keel.

Depends on what dyneema you're using, a Soft shackle in d12 max sk99 Co uld be well on the way to 20T!

 

[snooks]

Depends on what dyneema you're using, a Soft shackle in d12 max sk99 Co uld be well on the way to 20T!

While I was looking for Dyneema around the chandleries I got a bargain bin hank of 2mm Dyneema. This has a breaking strain of over 1 tonne. A lashing going around 5 times would be able to suspend my yacht out of the water.

The swl on a size 40 winch is 1.5 tonnes. The break load on a badly made soft shackle was 1.8 tonnes. Most broke in excess of 2.5 tonnes, some nearly 4!

We chose 5mm because for the majority of yachts 5mm is more than enough. :0)

 

[snooks]

Other people are trained engineers and use modern technology at it's best, rather than succumbing to trendy BS...

Don't you be coming down here with your newfangled materials...

Death before Dacron! Flax or fahgeddit! Down with Dyneema!