Soft shackles

[Dockhead]

Other people are trained engineers and use modern technology at it's best, rather than succumbing to trendy BS...

Soft shackles are used universally on ocean racing boats, America's cup boats, etc -- as specified by "trained engineers" and for the purpose of winning races, not engaging in "trendy BS".

You shouldn't knock them, without trying them. They have a number of profound advantages, with few disadvantages, compared to metal ones. And to top it off they are much cheaper than metal ones. Less resistance to chafe is the main disadvantage of them, but Dyneema is very chafe resistant and lasts for a very long time. When they do chafe, however -- toss them, and substitute a new, 95 p one.

One of the great advantages of them is for places like headsail clews, were metal is too heavy. I always used bowlines when I used poly sheets, and bowlines are plenty secure, but that mass of knotted cordage at the clew can be awkward when tacking. I changed to soft shackles for this when I went to Dyneema sheets, which shouldn't be knotted. This is the way it's been done on all top racing boats for at least a decade by now -- so in no way any kind of "trendy BS".

The other brilliant thing to do with single braid Dyneema is making spliced loop strops, which are incredibly useful, especially in combination with low friction rings. These are another really extremely useful innovation -- stronger, simpler, more compact, more reliable, and much cheaper than normal blocks. Like soft shackles, universally used on racing boats these days. When I had a 90% blade jib made for my boat last year, I had a choice of installing a new set of jib car tracks and cars at the cost of several thousand pounds, an requiring headliner to be ripped out etc., or to rig up twings using Dyneema strops and low friction eyes, like racing boats have, for a couple hundred. I did the latter, and it is absolutely brilliant -- much smoother and easier to use than a normal jib car track, and giving control over the sheet lead in three dimensions.

There are plenty of things worth being all conservative about -- Lord knows I am wont to this on various issues concerning boat design -- but rigging is not one of them. Soft shackles, Dyneema cordage, and low friction eyes are huge leaps forward, better in almost every way, and much cheaper (except the cordage of course).

 

[snooks]

Thanks Graham. Must have watched the video a dozen times but I still wasnt clear whether the two ends went round the outside in the same direction or in opposite directions.

Anyway I now have another problem . Having bought a second piece of 5mm dynema off Ebay ( where else) I cant for the life of me open it up enough to get the snake to swallow its tail so to speak. And the rope is quite sticky / non slippy.

Sounds like Marlow's Dyneema :0) is it black?

You could use a needle fid, or a piece if thinish electrical wire doubled up and use it like a needle, then push the Dyneema together and work it a bit, working your way down the snake.

 

[Dockhead]

Sounds like Marlow's Dyneema :0) is it black?

You could use a needle fid, or a piece if thinish electrical wire doubled up and use it like a needle, then push the Dyneema together and work it a bit, working your way down the snake.

Ball point pen works wonders for this. Also, push the end in, and the rope will expand and the braid will open up, making it easier.

The coated stickyish Dyneema is harder to splice, than the normal stuff, but still not all that bad.

 

[KAL]

It took me several goes to get the diamond knot right, but it helped to make it a few times using a piece of 2mm braided cord, so I could see better what I was doing. It's pretty obvious when you've got it right.

I now have 4 good soft shackles and made another spliced loop with the bit I had left over.

Thanks Snooks and Vyv for a really useful article, video and instructions. :encouragement:

 

[Keen_Ed]

Why I'd love to take all the credit, Vyv suggested and wrote the article, Kieran the Editor was supportive and gave the subject a host of pages and Simon, our art ed, was instrumental in making Vyv's writing and my witterings clear and logical.

We also couldn't have made it the feature it was without the help of companies like Tradline and English Braids.

The feature caused a whole host of headaches for everyone, but we're all happy with the final product. But no matter how happy we are, it means nothing unless you guys feel it's worthwhile, and we have the balance right.

Thank you.

Late to this. Reading the article on Readly, I think you suggest that L-36.com is Evans Starzinger's website, which it isn't. I the site of a Lapworth 36 sailor from San Francisco called Allen Edwards.

 

[Seajet]

Soft shackles are used universally on ocean racing boats, America's cup boats, etc -- as specified by "trained engineers" and for the purpose of winning races, not engaging in "trendy BS".

You shouldn't knock them, without trying them. They have a number of profound advantages, with few disadvantages, compared to metal ones. And to top it off they are much cheaper than metal ones. Less resistance to chafe is the main disadvantage of them, but Dyneema is very chafe resistant and lasts for a very long time. When they do chafe, however -- toss them, and substitute a new, 95 p one.

One of the great advantages of them is for places like headsail clews, were metal is too heavy. I always used bowlines when I used poly sheets, and bowlines are plenty secure, but that mass of knotted cordage at the clew can be awkward when tacking. I changed to soft shackles for this when I went to Dyneema sheets, which shouldn't be knotted. This is the way it's been done on all top racing boats for at least a decade by now -- so in no way any kind of "trendy BS".

The other brilliant thing to do with single braid Dyneema is making spliced loop strops, which are incredibly useful, especially in combination with low friction rings. These are another really extremely useful innovation -- stronger, simpler, more compact, more reliable, and much cheaper than normal blocks. Like soft shackles, universally used on racing boats these days. When I had a 90% blade jib made for my boat last year, I had a choice of installing a new set of jib car tracks and cars at the cost of several thousand pounds, an requiring headliner to be ripped out etc., or to rig up twings using Dyneema strops and low friction eyes, like racing boats have, for a couple hundred. I did the latter, and it is absolutely brilliant -- much smoother and easier to use than a normal jib car track, and giving control over the sheet lead in three dimensions.

There are plenty of things worth being all conservative about -- Lord knows I am wont to this on various issues concerning boat design -- but rigging is not one of them. Soft shackles, Dyneema cordage, and low friction eyes are huge leaps forward, better in almost every way, and much cheaper (except the cordage of course).

I'm happy to accept there is a place for soft shackles - but it must be remembered they are just a new way of doing things called ' lacing ' or ' tying knots ' !

In fact I'd say there are plenty of applications, but the one place I really would be conservative about, myself, is rigging !

 

[snooks]

Late to this. Reading the article on Readly, I think you suggest that L-36.com is Evans Starzinger's website, which it isn't. I the site of a Lapworth 36 sailor from San Francisco called Allen Edwards.

It should have read Evans Starzingers website and l-36.com. But When I subbed it I got it wrong.

 

[bbg]

In fact I'd say there are plenty of applications, but the one place I really would be conservative about, myself, is rigging !

I don't think anyone has said that would be an appropriate application for a soft shackle. I think it would not be an appropriate application.

Why do you keep bringing up rigging? No-one else has.

 

[Dockhead]

I'm happy to accept there is a place for soft shackles - but it must be remembered they are just a new way of doing things called ' lacing ' or ' tying knots ' !. . .

Certainly, but the properties of the new cordage make all the difference, and make applications possible which could not be done with poly cordage.

The new cordage is also incredibly easy to splice, and unlike poly cordage, retains almost 100% of its strength in a long bury splice.

This opens up whole new worlds, of what you can do with it.

 

[Birdseye]

Sounds like Marlow's Dyneema :0) is it black?

You could use a needle fid, or a piece if thinish electrical wire doubled up and use it like a needle, then push the Dyneema together and work it a bit, working your way down the snake.

Yes its blue Marlow dynema. And I had tried something very similar to your suggestion but it still would not go.. Essentially, the tube is just too tight.

 

[Birdseye]

Ball point pen works wonders for this. Also, push the end in, and the rope will expand and the braid will open up, making it easier.

The coated stickyish Dyneema is harder to splice, than the normal stuff, but still not all that bad.

tried various diameters of ball points down to the very smallest I could get the dynema tail into and then even just pulling the tail through using some twine. failed completely

 

[snooks]

Yes its blue Marlow dynema. And I had tried something very similar to your suggestion but it still would not go.. Essentially, the tube is just too tight.

Have you made the 'snake' as short as possible by scrunching it together? Pinch it in both hands about an inch apart (starting at the 1st mark) and push your hands together so the weave opens up, move down about an inch toward the second mark and do it again...the should be almost double the thickness.

If you could find something long and thin, like a knitting needle, and insert that in the rope first and scrunch it open around that so the hole is a lot bigger.

If it's any consolation I found Marlow's the hardest of the Dyneema samples I found to splice together. Also the knot tends to stick a little as you tighten it up on a winch :0)

 

[Keen_Ed]

Certainly, but the properties of the new cordage make all the difference, and make applications possible which could not be done with poly cordage.

The new cordage is also incredibly easy to splice, and unlike poly cordage, retains almost 100% of its strength in a long bury splice.

This opens up whole new worlds, of what you can do with it.

Not only that, but it really doesn't like knots.

In many ways, a return to cordage is more traditional than metal. No bottlescrews here.

 

[oldbilbo]

Aye, but that 'fantasy' has a stonking big inboard diesel and at least one humungous genset.....

 

[Dockhead]

Not only that, but it really doesn't like knots.

In many ways, a return to cordage is more traditional than metal. No bottlescrews here.

Indeed!!


And it's also a return to ropework --

instead of just buying the shiny metal bit at the chandler's.

 

[oldbilbo]

Look at all that baggywrinkle... in all the wrong places!

I reckon that thing will go downwind just as fast with no saii up. And upwind not at all. Even with the wind abeam, she'll go sideways like a Kalihari sandsnake.

....For the tourists.

 

[DannyB]

After watching the video I have ordered some Dyneema from eBay and I'm looking forward to making a few. But, I've been thinking, my genoa sheets are tied on with bowlines, so to use soft shackles I would have to splice eyes in the end or tie bowlines in the end, doesn't seem to make sense. The only steel shackle I have on board is on the end of the main halyard, again, not a sensible application. So what do I use them for once I've made them ?

 

[snooks]

So what do I use them for once I've made them ?

Well you could take your Genoa sheets to a friendly rigger and get them to put an eye splice in the two ends.

You could use them to:
Attach your main sail tack/clew
Attach your jackstays
Remove any rattling shackles from your mainsheet
Attach snatch blocks to your toerail
Attach blocks to your bow cleats for a preventer
Attach asymmetric sheets
Attach to halyards to sails

I've made some small ones out of 3mm Dyneema to replace the shackles on my headsail furling, so I don't need to seize them using cable ties.

 

[vyv_cox]

After watching the video I have ordered some Dyneema from eBay and I'm looking forward to making a few. But, I've been thinking, my genoa sheets are tied on with bowlines, so to use soft shackles I would have to splice eyes in the end or tie bowlines in the end, doesn't seem to make sense.

If you can make a soft shackle you can put an eye splice in double braid rope. Our boat has a babystay which always led to hangups when tacking a big genoa with sheets tied with bowlines. Eye splices and a soft shackle have transormed tacking, rarely a problem now.

 

[Daydream believer]

Re: Soft shackles [Video]

I just pinch a set of mole grips onto each tail, wrap it round the jaws and pull as hard as I can on each one. Might not set it all the way or reach full strength but seems to work OK, something else will break a long time before the soft shackle goes.

Have not read the whole thread but i pass the tails throuh a ring of a spanner then grip in moles & then lever against that
Apologies if already suggested but this thread just seems to go on & it is something that has been about for years so i am surprised at the sudden response as though someone has just invented the wheel
Do some owners just live in a bubble?