Social Housing on the Thames

[Jaysay]

Is it just me, or has the number of New Age Travellers and their filthy boats increased on the Thames? These people hog many of the best moorings for months on end, often appear to have no licence or name, and, in some instances, make a thorough nuisance of themselves. I have just passed the Tesco moorings at Reading and note that a crowd are STILL there (I thought Reading Borough Council had moved them on) with music screeching at full blast. I see from another post that they are well ensconced at Kingston too. British Waterways took a very robust line with non-licence payers a few years ago and enforces a two-week staying limit - I wonder if this has moved these boats onto the Thames where enforcement is more lax? I do not remember seeing so many when I first moored on the Thames 5 years ago.
I do not see our waterways as an alternative to social housing, despite Mr Cameron's plans to make them so. Can nothing be done to move these people on? Before long the river will start to look like Hong Kong, with its complete community born, living and dying on the water.
Glad I got that off my chest.

 

[watson1959]

Is it just me, or has the number of New Age Travellers and their filthy boats increased on the Thames? These people hog many of the best moorings for months on end, often appear to have no licence or name, and, in some instances, make a thorough nuisance of themselves. I have just passed the Tesco moorings at Reading and note that a crowd are STILL there (I thought Reading Borough Council had moved them on) with music screeching at full blast. I see from another post that they are well ensconced at Kingston too. British Waterways took a very robust line with non-licence payers a few years ago and enforces a two-week staying limit - I wonder if this has moved these boats onto the Thames where enforcement is more lax? I do not remember seeing so many when I first moored on the Thames 5 years ago.
I do not see our waterways as an alternative to social housing, despite Mr Cameron's plans to make them so. Can nothing be done to move these people on? Before long the river will start to look like Hong Kong, with its complete community born, living and dying on the water.
Glad I got that off my chest.

I moor at T&K Marina....2 minutes from there. There have been more than usual moored on that stretch over the past couple of weeks, some due to the Reading Festival being on according to a conversation with a guy at the marina. Never seen any trouble; most seem to nod/wave an acknowledgement; I don't see any mess and there's plenty of noise/drunken behaviour that comes from the many day/weekend hires at Caversham.

The only thing I object to is any lack of respect for licensing and paying their way like the rest of us.

 

[sturmvogel190a]

I moor at T&K Marina....2 minutes from there. There have been more than usual moored on that stretch over the past couple of weeks, some due to the Reading Festival being on according to a conversation with a guy at the marina. Never seen any trouble; most seem to nod/wave an acknowledgement; I don't see any mess and there's plenty of noise/drunken behaviour that comes from the many day/weekend hires at Caversham.

The only thing I object to is any lack of respect for licensing and paying their way like the rest of us.

That old wooden barge they live on is a right eyesore and god knows what the toilet arrangements are ,any luck the winter floods will wash it away with em .
Seen the other side of those happy wavy chappys when asked to move up to allow mooring space , met some of them whilst up at Abingdon earlier in the year brave when they are in numbers face .
Many of them were moored up the Kennet in Reading and that is where the council moved them on from i believe ,They seem to be congregating outside Tesco to await the winter?? Steve.

 

[dash300]

Now you've all got me going again! Yes the river pikey's are on the increase and have been for years.The only thing the EA have done of late is make sure they are licenced whether they move of not.Teddington Lock I am sure will have a view on this, but the aesthetics of the river are being despoiled on our Royal River. We have floating 2 storey prefabs which have no means of propulsion but are legal! We have semi floating derilict but occupied hulks, which on any other highway would be considered fly tipping and we expect tourists from around the world who cruise on our increasing number of Hotel Barges to take the message back - 'yup the Brits have got it in the bag'.
I wonder!
Hopefully they have had their eyes averted by the other fantastic historical, architechtural and rural qualities of the Thames.

 

[rebellion]

Yes, the Kingston stretch have more than a few "resident" boats. Ever since that incident where a few occupied Ravens ait there have been a multitude more. Added to which are the stationary houseboats who are intent on reducing the 5 arches of Kingston Bridge down to 3 whenever possible, and the railway bridge down to 1. I gather that the moored "Vessels" under the arches are moored legally, but at the same time it makes the area look so congested it's unreal.

Oh well, could be a laugh when the man with the clipboard comes down the towpath to try and figure out exactly where all these overseas boats are going to moor around London during the Olympics!

 

[Sandyman]

Oh well, could be a laugh when the man with the clipboard comes down the towpath to try and figure out exactly where all these overseas boats are going to moor around London during the Olympics!

Could also be a laugh when another one wants them to pay Council Tax.

 

[oldgit]

" I don't see any mess and there's plenty of noise/drunken behaviour that comes from the many day/weekend hires at Caversham."



....and unlike in a very recent incident posted on here ,they do not threaten people with violence when politely asked for their music to turned down,unlike a group of "our sort of boaters" at Windsor a weekend or two ago. ?

Suspect there were many more people living on the water just after the war due to lack of accomodation and simply because some people fancied the lifestyle.

 

[boatone]

Complex problem and what seems obvious may not be as simple as it seems.

Is vessel registered or not ? EA area of responsibility and enforcement.

Is vessel moored illegally - who owns the mooring? EA only responsible if it is their own moorings, otherwise down to the landowner which may be a local authority or a private owner.

Can they be moved on? Quite possibly but only after various legal hoops have been jumped through. For instance - who owns a boat and how do you find out if it has no history? Even if it was registered in previous years that doesn't prove that it still belongs to the same owner. If you don't know who owns it how do you serve notice on the owner?

Residential issues and council tax? Not the EA's responsibility - that is a local authority issue and council tax can only, as I understand it, be levied if the mooring is a designated residential - which , in itself, I believe, requires planning consent which again is local authority.

Reading council obtained legal injunctions against various people for mooring on the Tescos site and, as I understood it those were the boats that moved just downriver of the entrance to the K&A - there were notices posted on the railings alongside Tescos.

 

[rosta]

Yes, the Kingston stretch have more than a few "resident" boats.

It's particularly frustrating if you want to moor up in Kingston. The (accessible) moorings outside John Lewis are limited, yet the New Age Travellers have been allowed to stay there for a couple of weeks now.

The half-finished-project look of these boats is extremely unsightly and worse still, they are spreading out over the towpath, using it for boat maintenance. It really doesn't reflect well on Kingston and I'm surprised John Lewis have put up with it.

I've raised the issue with RBK but they say they don't own the moorings, theirs are at the other end of town. So it looks like its the EA's problem.

 

[boatone]

I've raised the issue with RBK but they say they don't own the moorings, theirs are at the other end of town. So it looks like its the EA's problem.

If they are EA 24 Hour Moorings there will be clear EA notices that say so.

Have you asked RBK who does own them?

I presume you are talking about the wall moorings just below the bridge right outside JL?

 

[Jaysay]

I moor at T&K Marina....2 minutes from there. There have been more than usual moored on that stretch over the past couple of weeks, some due to the Reading Festival being on according to a conversation with a guy at the marina. Never seen any trouble; most seem to nod/wave an acknowledgement; I don't see any mess and there's plenty of noise/drunken behaviour that comes from the many day/weekend hires at Caversham.

The only thing I object to is any lack of respect for licensing and paying their way like the rest of us.

I take the point that often these people will return a friendly wave and, perhaps, we should try to be tolerant of their choice of lifestyle. But the communities at Reading and Kingston are but one example of several on the river: offhand, I can think of semi-permanent boats also at the aits above Shiplake, above Sonning, above Godstow, above and below Kings, Eynesham...the list goes on. Take a trip on (say) the Oxford Canal and you will encounter mile after mile of moored boats, many illegal and all preventing you from stopping for the night or visiting a pub, town or shop (on the canal they also inhibit you from picking up any speed). This is the way the Thames will end up if we are not careful. Yes it is a big river, but mooring places are not infinite.
As to the solution well yes, alas it is complex. But at the very least the EA could start enforcing the lack of licences and the failure to display boat names (without the latter, how do you identify them?). Perhaps they could check on whether these boats have Boat Safety Certificates under the all-encompassing weapon of Health and Safety. Come to that, they could check how they stay afloat.

 

[watson1959]

I take the point that often these people will return a friendly wave and, perhaps, we should try to be tolerant of their choice of lifestyle. But the communities at Reading and Kingston are but one example of several on the river: offhand, I can think of semi-permanent boats also at the aits above Shiplake, above Sonning, above Godstow, above and below Kings, Eynesham...the list goes on. Take a trip on (say) the Oxford Canal and you will encounter mile after mile of moored boats, many illegal and all preventing you from stopping for the night or visiting a pub, town or shop (on the canal they also inhibit you from picking up any speed). This is the way the Thames will end up if we are not careful. Yes it is a big river, but mooring places are not infinite.
As to the solution well yes, alas it is complex. But at the very least the EA could start enforcing the lack of licences and the failure to display boat names (without the latter, how do you identify them?). Perhaps they could check on whether these boats have Boat Safety Certificates under the all-encompassing weapon of Health and Safety. Come to that, they could check how they stay afloat.

+1 agree.

 

[Ramage]

And where do they get their diesel I wonder.... ?

 

[dash300]

I take the point that often these people will return a friendly wave and, perhaps, we should try to be tolerant of their choice of lifestyle. But the communities at Reading and Kingston are but one example of several on the river: offhand, I can think of semi-permanent boats also at the aits above Shiplake, above Sonning, above Godstow, above and below Kings, Eynesham...the list goes on. Take a trip on (say) the Oxford Canal and you will encounter mile after mile of moored boats, many illegal and all preventing you from stopping for the night or visiting a pub, town or shop (on the canal they also inhibit you from picking up any speed). This is the way the Thames will end up if we are not careful. Yes it is a big river, but mooring places are not infinite.
As to the solution well yes, alas it is complex. But at the very least the EA could start enforcing the lack of licences and the failure to display boat names (without the latter, how do you identify them?). Perhaps they could check on whether these boats have Boat Safety Certificates under the all-encompassing weapon of Health and Safety. Come to that, they could check how they stay afloat.

I totally agree. The banks of the River Thames should be regarded as an Area of outstanding Natural Beauty and planning laws in relation to residential moorings should be applied this classification. (I'm sure I saw a Great Crested Newt on the river bank the other day !)

The Green Belt is currently under threat to house our bugeoning international population. They aren't making land any more, let alone river bank.

 

[The engineer]

it may be encouraged soon

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14690157

 

[oldgit]

"The Green Belt is currently under threat to house our bugeoning international population."

Presume you mean all those people from Birmingham who are clogging up the Thames with their tin slugs .
There are also rumours that there are actual persons of Scottish descent in Bray marina and even worse all sorts of ruffians from Milton Keynes.
Where will it all end. !

 

[max1mori2]

It's particularly frustrating if you want to moor up in Kingston. The (accessible) moorings outside John Lewis are limited, yet the New Age Travellers have been allowed to stay there for a couple of weeks now.

The half-finished-project look of these boats is extremely unsightly and worse still, they are spreading out over the towpath, using it for boat maintenance. It really doesn't reflect well on Kingston and I'm surprised John Lewis have put up with it.

I've raised the issue with RBK but they say they don't own the moorings, theirs are at the other end of town. So it looks like its the EA's problem.

Well the eye sores as far as I am concerned is the dreadful John Lewis Store and the Slug and Lettuce pub, We lived with our family of three on a houseboat at Turks Boatyard in the 1960's and what a great community it was, scruffy yes, there was little money around but we all supported each other. The John Lewis Store is an imposition on the Thames, its ugly and should never have been built, likewise the Pub. On the bank there were trees and shrubs, great places for kids to play. Where are the trees now? Oh yess they were chopped down to make way for the Pub. Does everything have to be oh so neat and tidy in straight lines totally characterless blah blah blah. Perhaps you should try getting to know some of these so called hippies, maybe you are jealous of their free lifestyle, flouting the law on occasions. But I expect you are too busy polluting the atmosphere with your diesel mini gin palaces. At least these kids have there own principles, and so what if some boat maintenance is done on the tow path. Rosta I'm afraid it is people with views such as yourself who are responsible for the myriad of faceless barren estates that have grown up in and around London in the last thirty years. Altering our beloved City and River forever.

Maxmori

 

[Gumpy]

British Waterways took a very robust line with non-licence payers a few years ago and enforces a two-week staying limit - I wonder if this has moved these boats onto the Thames where enforcement is more lax?

You are kidding arn't you
BW does very little about moving boats on despite the rules, they do as EA does combat licence evasion its down to less the 4% in my local area.

 

[jimmcgee]

Well the eye sores as far as I am concerned is the dreadful John Lewis Store and the Slug and Lettuce pub, We lived with our family of three on a houseboat at Turks Boatyard in the 1960's and what a great community it was, scruffy yes, there was little money around but we all supported each other. The John Lewis Store is an imposition on the Thames, its ugly and should never have been built, likewise the Pub. On the bank there were trees and shrubs, great places for kids to play. Where are the trees now? Oh yess they were chopped down to make way for the Pub. Does everything have to be oh so neat and tidy in straight lines totally characterless blah blah blah. Perhaps you should try getting to know some of these so called hippies, maybe you are jealous of their free lifestyle, flouting the law on occasions. But I expect you are too busy polluting the atmosphere with your diesel mini gin palaces. At least these kids have there own principles, and so what if some boat maintenance is done on the tow path. Rosta I'm afraid it is people with views such as yourself who are responsible for the myriad of faceless barren estates that have grown up in and around London in the last thirty years. Altering our beloved City and River forever.

Maxmori

as a true scotch man and reading OLDGITS post , I am with you 110% brother

 

[boatone]

I can tell you that the last figures I am aware of showed that the EA had issued over 500 enforcement notices in recent months following sweeps in various stretches of the river including the Teddington-Molesey stretch. Some 300 of these resulted in payment leaving around 200 requiring further action.
I understand at least one removal notice has been issued which will be the first test case under the new legislation.

The sad fact is that, although the IWO has finally created the legal authority to enforce payment for keeping a boat on the river, the EA has limited resources to deploy for this purpose. The irony is that we can inevitably expect an increase in charges - which are easy to collect from the law abiding community - whilst it will take many months before they can target the whole river to identify and chase delinquents.

EA Thames has to manage its resources within the budget handed down from on high. The responsibility for inadequate resources really lies further up the food chain than Reading.