So, would I be nuts to buy a boat with osmosis?

armchairsailor

armchairsailor

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Grrr... Got it in my head that a boat I've seen is a blinkin' bargain. As expected, a quick email to the broker confirmed what I suspected - it's got osmosis.

I don't know how bad it is, and there is NO chance of doing a haulout for a look (the thing is 5000 miles away), but it's still sticking in my mind that despite it all, it might be the sort of thing I'm looking for.

I'm happy to put in the graft once I am able to get it nearer to where I will be staying (considerably closer than my current location) and to effect a decent repair on the blisters. After all, if I got the thing in my back garden, time would be a luxury and I could potter away at it for a winter, get it sorted and ready for the following season - not many gelcoat repair companies have that sort of time to play with.

So, I suppose the thing is, whilst I understand it's laborious, would a moderately handy person who can read up on the subject do any worse job than a pro, and if that is the only major problem with such a yacht, then would it be daft to get my hands on - the thing is about 50-70% of the market cost of lower end examples of this model of boat. £6k for a 34' IOR vintage cruiser racer is a lot for your money, after all...
 
It's 5000 miles away. A novice delivery skipper might do it for £1 a mile plus expenses. Doing it yourself means not doing whatever it is you do to earn a living for at least 2 months even if the weather is favourable. It's a worn out 40 year old boat, probably with worn out 40 year old rigging and sails; you're looking at a lot of money before it would be safe to sail offshore, let alone ocean passagemaking. Your cheap boat isn't cheap; by the time you get it to the UK, it will be an expensive boat.

It will be a lot less grief going for something at a more realistic price and closer to home; this, or this, or this.

Not unlike your poxy IOR dream, this Nautor Swan 37 would be worth upward of £30k even in sheddy condition in the UK. Unfortunately for the owner it's in Hawaii, so he's struggling to get interest at half that.
 
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armchairsailor said:
Grrr... Got it in my head that a boat I've seen is a blinkin' bargain. As expected, a quick email to the broker confirmed what I suspected - it's got osmosis.

I don't know how bad it is, and there is NO chance of doing a haulout for a look (the thing is 5000 miles away), but it's still sticking in my mind that despite it all, it might be the sort of thing I'm looking for.

I'm happy to put in the graft once I am able to get it nearer to where I will be staying (considerably closer than my current location) and to effect a decent repair on the blisters. After all, if I got the thing in my back garden, time would be a luxury and I could potter away at it for a winter, get it sorted and ready for the following season - not many gelcoat repair companies have that sort of time to play with.

So, I suppose the thing is, whilst I understand it's laborious, would a moderately handy person who can read up on the subject do any worse job than a pro, and if that is the only major problem with such a yacht, then would it be daft to get my hands on - the thing is about 50-70% of the market cost of lower end examples of this model of boat. £6k for a 34' IOR vintage cruiser racer is a lot for your money, after all...
Click to expand...
There was an article in PBO No 510 about a young student who bought a similar size, 1980s boat for £7000, he repaired it and the osmosis and totally renovated the boat. For some of us boat ownership is not just about being out on the water, renovating your own boat has more than financial rewards.
 
penfold said:
Not unlike your poxy IOR dream, this Nautor Swan 37 would be worth upward of £30k even in sheddy condition in the UK. Unfortunately for the owner it's in Hawaii, so he's struggling to get interest at half that.
Click to expand...

It's not a Swan 37, but yes, it could still fetch twice that in the UK.

On the subject of suspiciously cheap boats, I quite fancy this:
http://uk.yachtworld.com/boats/1991/Americas-Cup-Esp5-1984194/Germany
Of course, once you've spent a night or two in a marina, it'd start to look expensive. Classy though.
 
It takes more than a winter (in the UK) to get even close to drying out the hull once peeled. Expect to have the boat out of the water for at least 18 months in reality. Entirely possible to do if happy with that kind of time frame. Done it myself. Are you moving to the boat or bringing the boat to you?

Yoda
 
If the boat has Osmosis then you need to have it looked at by a knowledgeable person. On the balance of probability most Osmosis can be lived with / addressed via treatment. Some boats however require serious structural repairs but this is rarer. I would not buy unless you can establish an opinion on the extent of the problem. My advice is given as an amateur.
 
armchairsailor said:
So, I suppose the thing is, whilst I understand it's laborious, would a moderately handy person who can read up on the subject do any worse job than a pro, and if that is the only major problem with such a yacht, then would it be daft to get my hands on - the thing is about 50-70% of the market cost of lower end examples of this model of boat. £6k for a 34' IOR vintage cruiser racer is a lot for your money, after all...
Click to expand...

Having been through the process twice, the answer to your question is no. You could make just as good a job as the pros even though they now have kit like hot pads that makes it all easier and quicker. Indeed, I wouldnt think that the cost of a professional osmosis job on a 6k boat would be worth it. The only caveat would be that some boats of that era had really serious osmosis with dinner plate sized blisters between the layers of laminate in which case yopu might think that the remedial work would be a bit too much.

The basic DIY process is:

1/ Blast or peel sufficient to make the outer gel coat porous and open up any sub surface blisters.
2/ repeatedly wash with fresh water, hot if possible.
3/ Buy yourself a moisture meter
4/After a few months leave the boat between washes and moinitor the moisture levels. What you are looking for is a boat that dries out because you have washed away the hygroscopic compounds generated and which cause osmosis. When the boat is "clean" it will dry to moisture levels similar both above and below the waterline within a month
5/ Once dry, fill holes, and epoxy.

On the other hand you could simply sail the boat and not bother with the osmosis
 
Don't peel the thing treat the blisters individualy by chiseling out & filling with some sorty of filler,really no big deal & like somebody else said doing the work yourself brings it's own rewards.Good luck.
The logistics of working on a boat so far away from home is quite another matter.
 
6k for a 34ft vintage IOR racer with osmosis, its that cheap for a reason.
Look at what that means, its a totally thrashed worn out lightly built racing machine. At that money everything will be worn out, sails rigging, gear, engine the lot. loads of money, oh & its got osmosis as well. The likely hood of structural damage is high.
Save your money & look nearer to home.
 
Bosun Higgs said:
Having been through the process twice, the answer to your question is no. You could make just as good a job as the pros even though they now have kit like hot pads that makes it all easier and quicker. Indeed, I wouldnt think that the cost of a professional osmosis job on a 6k boat would be worth it. The only caveat would be that some boats of that era had really serious osmosis with dinner plate sized blisters between the layers of laminate in which case yopu might think that the remedial work would be a bit too much.

The basic DIY process is:

1/ Blast or peel sufficient to make the outer gel coat porous and open up any sub surface blisters.
2/ repeatedly wash with fresh water, hot if possible.
3/ Buy yourself a moisture meter
4/After a few months leave the boat between washes and moinitor the moisture levels. What you are looking for is a boat that dries out because you have washed away the hygroscopic compounds generated and which cause osmosis. When the boat is "clean" it will dry to moisture levels similar both above and below the waterline within a month
5/ Once dry, fill holes, and epoxy.

On the other hand you could simply sail the boat and not bother with the osmosis
Click to expand...

I can recommend Wicks fiberglass wood filler:D
 
Time and effort are the big expenses in a boat yard, if you can get the boat to you some where it can sit and you can do the jobs yourself then life's a bowl of cherries.

As long as you come at this as a long term DIY project then every thing will balance out, it will end up not costing vast amounts of cash but time for many is a premium we can't afford but if you can then there is no reason you will not end up with the boat of your dreams.

No professional GRP worker is born with the skills to do their job, just time and practice is the difference.

Once you learn about vacuum bagging your hull, life will seem so much nicer (http://www.fiberglasssupply.com/Product_Catalog/Vacuum_Bagging/vacuum_bagging.html), an easy way to draw moisture from any material.

Go on give it a try.

Don't be tempted by $1 a mile trainee skipper, they may not have the skill level needed to deliver anything other than new boats with no quirks, get an experienced delivery skipper or have it shipped. (My opinion)

Mark
 
Go for it! In the Uk we are encouraged to be scared of Osmosis. In the USA they are baffled as to our horror when osmosis is detected. Standard practice over there appears to be to scrape out the blisters treat them individually and get the boat back in the water. Its cheap, quick and sorts the blisters out. If you found rust on an area of a metal boat, youd treat the rust only. If you had some rotten planks on a wooden boat youd replace the rotten planks. Im sure if i had a relatively new wooden, steel or grp boat with small areas of problems i would sort the whole hull. But with a budget, i would only repair what was at fault. Like the Americans! Dont rely on speaking to shipwrights in the uk, call someone in the states to get a balanced opinion. Someyears ago i bought a westerly sealord in Florida. Believe me, unless you can spend a good deal of time with the boat, the distance will be more of a worry than the blisters! Good luck.
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
If the boat has Osmosis then you need to have it looked at by a knowledgeable person.
Click to expand...

And, essentially, by a knowledgeable person who has no financial interest whatsoever in the diagnosis. There are lots of people who will tell you how dreadful the problem is, how dreadful your problem is, how complicated remedial work is, how expensive remedial work is ... and how they can fit you in if you book now.:eek:

My own inexpert view is that if couple of layers of epoxy snake oil cured the problem - if there is a problem - then boat manufacturers would apply them, at negligible extra cost, during initial construction. It's a bit like "fuel catalyst" cons - if they really gave increased mpg then car makers would all fit them. They don't, and yacht builders don't, so ...
 
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yoda said:
It takes more than a winter (in the UK) to get even close to drying out the hull once peeled. Expect to have the boat out of the water for at least 18 months in reality. Entirely possible to do if happy with that kind of time frame. Done it myself. Are you moving to the boat or bringing the boat to you?

Yoda
Click to expand...

I'm sort of meeting it halfway. It's based in Oregon, and I'd be going to Vancouver, so 300 miles up the I5.

My thing is to get a boat that's safe and big enough to accommodate the family - it's a bit bigger than I'm looking for, but I reckon if I could get the ting delivered and tax paid for about £7k, I'd potentially have something of greater value at the end of the day. I don't mind putting in the time, or indeed even building a cover to help dry it out (seeing as we are talking wet west coast here). I've waited this long to get a boat, and I have several large projects going on at the mo (much to my wife's chagrin), including an extension.
 
Thanks for the replies. It's an '77 Ericson 34X - a fairly well respected, ostensibly decently built boat originating in the US. It's got plenty of headroom and is clean and comfy inside, and another forumite was kind enough to go and have a nose around it, and felt it wasn't a complete dog. He was particularly impressed by the rig, which was modern in design.

Ken- I agree that it might be a handful, and it's a worry. A squirrely back end is the last thing I'd want, but would I be thrashing it with the family aboard? Only if i wanted them to stop sailing for ever more.

The setup is basic but sensible, and the only running rigging upgrade I could foresee doing immediately would be leading the halyards to the cockpit. No fancy gizmos, so I'd intend to use a mixture of traditional passage planning with laptop backup in the first instance. Plus a pilot book and as much local knowledge as I could find, of course.

The price is in part reflective of the market, which is good news, and I would only go ahead after a thorough survey - it wouldn't be sensible to do otherwise. Anyway, plenty of time between now and then, and hopefully it'll find a home in the meantime and end my fantasy.
 
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