So whats up at Sunseeker

[DAKA]

I don't frankly care,

What he has done is totally and utterly wrong, it is dangerous and he should know better. While he is at it, if he is so clever let's see Fairline and Princess details while he is at it.

My investment is going to be 7 figures, I want to know! Don't worry an e-mail has already gone to my accountant!

This is an open forum, it is very useful for obtaining information ready to point you in the right direction.



You may choose to ignore jfm's post, however I agree with others, jfm does not usually make comments which he does not believe are accurate and it is very rare for him to be wrong.

You have acted on the forum rumour which is very sensible, I now urge you to leave it at that and not force anyone into a corner as doing so will gag all professionals on the forum from future contributions.

Regards

Peter

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I don't frankly care, I want to see it on here, and if he will not put it on here then he should not have started what he has. Where does that leave me, is my accountant a liar?

What he has done is totally and utterly wrong, it is dangerous and he should know better. While he is at it, if he is so clever let's see Fairline and Princess details while he is at it.

My investment is going to be 7 figures, I want to know! Don't worry an e-mail has already gone to my accountant!

What a silly statement. Firstly this is an open forum and people can say what they like within the rules of the forum. Second, you can read jfm's comments and choose to ignore them if you wish; nobody is forcing you to take them into account in your purchase decision. Third, if anybody is in a position to make these comments, jfm is.
Personally I don't like the tone of many of your posts but I'm not complaining

 

[jfm]

Mmmmm, anyone else out there boat buyers should be aware of in your opinion, or does your advise of a few months ago re the safest bets still stand. Also, talking to a credit analyst from same firm about one of the other big 4,with whom I am sort of involved, I got the impression that they take into account customer deposits as assets, even though the boat has not been made yet. Is this correct ?

Hard to work out on this forum who each poster is replying to. If you're replying to me, I don't know ref your question on my prior advice of a few months ago becuase I dont remeber my advice from a few months ago. Can you point me to it or quote it back?

Ref credit analyst question, I wasn't talking about what might or might not be regarded as "assets". That's just accounting. I was talking about liquidity, like, say, having enough cash to pay your suppliers so they don't stop supplying or take their stuff back, and in that context the question of whether some cash is an "asset" is academeic. What matters is simply how much cash you have. Customer deposits are cash and very much ARE counted when you're looking at liquidity.

 

[MapisM]

My investment is going to be 7 figures, I want to know! Don't worry an e-mail has already gone to my accountant!

So, what do we have here? Someone who:
1) can afford a boat worth millions;
2) does not know how to secure a deposit on a new boat, which is doable regardless of the builder financial situation;
3) gets nervous after reading a post like this, along the lines of which there were already others in the past - and not just related to UK Companies btw;
4) last but not least, can't think of any better reaction than emailing his accountant.

I've often thought that we miss a B.S. icon in this forum, but never really missed it as much as in this case.

 

[MapisM]

talking to a credit analyst ... I got the impression that they take into account customer deposits as assets

A liability considered as an asset?!?
And I thought to have seen/heard it all...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Yes, I think the liquidity issue has raised its head - certainly at the show there was talk of banks becoming more involved in the daily activities....

I know from personal experience what a PITA it is when you a forced to concentrate on 'consultants' and the like iso running the biz and getting out of a percieved hole.

One aspect of S/S that I mis-trust is the seemingly constant mix up with the dealers.

S/S sales group, S/S London, M.M in Banus, on and on it goes. Who are you dealing with
Sometimes the staff do not know!

Seems to me this is daft with such a strong brand. I would only pay money to the Co that owns/operates the Poole factory.

Yeah, I agree with that. AFAIK Sunseeker Sales is actually owned by their German dealer and Sunseeker London is the phoenix which rose from the ashes of David Lewis Yachts going belly up. Doesn't fill you with confidence if you've got a big deposit to pay.

 

[westie34]

1. I have just sold my business
2. I am not an expert on boats or building them I have had to rely on expert advice
3. I am VERY nervous as this is a big purchase for me and reading up on as much as I can
4. I have been advised by my accountant and experts as there is a lot at stake in staged payments, and I want to be as protected as I can possibly be in the current climate

 

[Richard Shead]

Sunseeker Sales

Yeah, I agree with that. AFAIK Sunseeker Sales is actually owned by their German dealer and Sunseeker London is the phoenix which rose from the ashes of David Lewis Yachts going belly up. Doesn't fill you with confidence if you've got a big deposit to pay.

Poole is owned by Sunseeker Sales London now

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

So, what do we have here? Someone who:
1) can afford a boat worth millions;
2) does not know how to secure a deposit on a new boat, which is doable regardless of the builder financial situation;
3) gets nervous after reading a post like this, along the lines of which there were already others in the past - and not just related to UK Companies btw;
4) last but not least, can't think of any better reaction than emailing his accountant.

I've often thought that we miss a B.S. icon in this forum, but never really missed it as much as in this case.

My thoughts exactly. Posting style reminds me of a certain other poster ex of this forum

 

[mjf]

1. I have just sold my business
2. I am not an expert on boats or building them I have had to rely on expert advice
3. I am VERY nervous as this is a big purchase for me and reading up on as much as I can
4. I have been advised by my accountant and experts as there is a lot at stake in staged payments, and I want to be as protected as I can possibly be in the current climate

Then my advice is, as others have said, is to keep you ear to the ground and act with caution.

Advice on here is generally 1st rate and some players are well connected or have huge experience in various aspects of biz and boat owning/use etc etc.

Being rude and demanding will not assist IMHO. I thought your tone was a little gruff - FWIW.

 

[fergie_mac66]

This country is in enough financial turmoil and working hard to get out of the mess we are in, the last thing we need are pompous, self important twits, spreading idle gossip and unconfirmed snippets of information discrediting UK companies. This is a global forum and a lot of eyes are watching, so in short it is either put up or shut up, or even more importantly engage brain before posting!

The above is NOT aimed at anyone in particular, it is just a general view, I am, as a loyal British citizen doing my best for Britain.

WELL said !!!!!!

Is this what you mean:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2390788#post2390788

 

[westie34]

I am NOT the only Sunseeker purchaser on this forum, there are others all in different stages of build, I have been communicating with them and NONE has shown signs of concern, maybe it is just me who is shy and gets nervous easily!

 

[westie34]

Being rude and demanding will not assist IMHO. I thought your tone was a little gruff - FWIW.

If it was felt that I was being rude and demanding I apologise, as for being a liitle 'Gruff' perhaps I am miss understood, everything is well intentioned, I will try to be a little softer.

 

[maverickofpoole]

Poole is owned by Sunseeker Sales London now

I can confirm that. My firm helped refurbished their offices at Poole just prior to 2009 boat show. The guys from London came down and were very friendly and upbeat about their taking over the Poole sales office. Robert Braithwaite oversaw the refurbishment works and made all the decisions worth making. I guess that would be because one of his companies own the buildings.

Martin

 

[gjgm]

If it was felt that I was being rude and demanding I apologise, as for being a liitle 'Gruff' perhaps I am miss understood, everything is well intentioned, I will try to be a little softer.

If there is one person on here who can probably offer the best advice on protecting your "investment", its JFM.
You might want to re-start ....

 

[hlb]

Wow
If I were you, I'd have an "off-line" chat with jfm .
If you have already committed to a purchase, you need to know how safe the commitment is.
If you haven't yet committed, you'd be well advised to listen to what he has to say.
IMO, when it comes to committing funds for deposits etc, you need to keep your ear as close to the ground as possible and get any info you can. Make your own decision but have all the facts you can get.

I think westie has probably unfortunatly burnt his bridges with JFM.

It could not have happened to a nicer person.

 

[Trundlebug]

Don't know about anyone else, but I was surprised to read that in FY2007/8 they only made 5% margin, i.e. profits of 15.6m from just shy of 300m turnover.

I guess it's a sign that it's a very competitive business, but even so I was surprised because if they're not in the luxury end of the market I don't know who is! As such I would have expected at least 8-10% margin.

Was anyone else surpised by this?

 

[jfm]

Westie I'm not going to get into a big debate with you because you're rude imho. If you continue and I don't reply, that's why. If you want to change your spots and make helpful and polite posts, please do and everyone will engage with you. Posters here bear grudges for no more than about an hour

Your comments that I'm a Fairline owner and your demands for full financials on FL and Princess are just absurd. But what I said on s/seeker might have been misunderstood so I'll clarify that

This thread is about "what's the story behind the s/s board changes". I offered a short explanation in my first post in this thread. Feel free to disagree and suggest another reason for the board changes. What you might have overlooked though is that my comments suggesting they were close to their liquidity limits were all referring to the past. My posts were all "past tense" comments on liquidity. I haven't said anything negative about s/s's current position (if I did, it was an accident and I retract and apologise) and indeed I mentioned they now have the 50metre deposit which is very positive for their current liquidity obviously.

Also I don't and didn't say that s/s are not making profits, bankrupt, or anything of the sort. Hence PY's comments about sales being £300m are kinda not relevant. I was referring purely to their liquidity, and the gist of what I'm saying is probably known by a hundred people in the City (I'm not in the slightest a s/seeker "insider"). I categorically am not saying there are any current distress issues in s/s that should make anyone (including deposit-paying boat buyers) be especially concerned about doing business with them. Not sure I can say it clearer than that. I repeat, I was merely suggesting reasons for the recent major board changes, that's all.

As for not posting the full precise information upon which my post is based, no I wont post it, as I said at the start. If you want to ignore what I say for that reason, then do. But in 11 years on this forum I've never made stuff up or posted comments for which I don't have reliable info (though I've made plenty of mistakes!). I fully accept everyone has a duty (at least a moral one) not to say things of this nature without having reliable information. I'm not a journalist but the same rules are universally accepted in respectable journalism - it's a cardinal sin to write stuff without reliable info/sources but there's no obligation to reveal your source.

If you stand back and see that (a) I said that in the recent past s/seeker had liquidity issues and (b) this week their 80pc shareholder and CEO, the eminently successful and admirable R Braithwaite, has agreed that a restructuring specialist become de facto CEO, surely you can see that (b) kinda suggests (a) might have been right? Sherlock.

Anyway, you say you're taking advice from your accountant. I guess you wont be asking someone who merely looks at past Companies House filings and out-of-date info like that. If he's well informed he must have told you something along the lines I've written anyway.

 

[coliholic]

Well for once I think Westie is absolutely right. Nobody should have any views contrary to his or know more than he says we should know and thus everybody should apologise to him for doubting his wisdom. After all he's e-mailed his accountant for heavens sake. What next? A strongly word in the ear of his local newspaper shop owner in case rumours get printed in the Sun?

IMHO we should wish Westie well in the purchase of his new SS and hope it takes him far and away.

 

[Philiz]

I think westie has probably unfortunatly burnt his bridges with JFM.

I'm sure they're both big enough to put it behind them and start afresh.
JFM was trying his best to be helpful but Westie reacted a bit strongly because he pictured his hard-earned going down the pan.