So I run a dock & a paying user comes to harm ...

[superheat6k]

Who's at fault here ...

The dock is a drying out concrete slab set at a slope with two stout scrubbing posts.

At the open end of the dock just where a typical boat using the dock will find his transom positioned is a sharp drop of some 4 or 5'.

As the tide recedes down the sloping surface the silt on its surface makes the gently lapping water muddy.

My client who has properly secured his boat, which has by now dried out to the entire length of its keel is inspecting his stern gear, when he arrives at the end of his boat where the muddy water is still gently lapping on the slope, below the position of his keel.

The client then walks to his stern ladder, or at least that is what he intended but he then discovers for himself the until then completely obscured ledge at the end of the dock. This discovery is made as he rapidly tumbles fully into the deeper water after the ledge.

Mostly OK apart from some bruises and a wrecked mobile phone, he hauls himself out and recovers his composure, spits out the quantity of the river he hasn't swallowed and goes to sort himself out.

It is only then he observes on the furthest post, closest to and facing the shore is a notice warning of a ledge. There is no signage from seaward where has has arrived from and disembarked his boat via his swim platform and dinghy to a nearby pontoon, which has then used to land on the surface of the dock itself.

When he reports this incident to me I point out this is his fault as he is responsible for safe passage planning. And that SOLAS and MCA rules require him to be responsible for his safe navigation, and I cannot be responsible for him stepping off his boat into deep water. Bearing in mind by this point the boat concerned is safely ashore on its keel, and the man concerned had arrived on the base of my dock via a dinghy into the shallow water of the dock.

But he then advises me that neither I nor my staff had explained this ledge, not in his view had I adequately marked its position. He also advises his boat was already ashore with a fully non immersed keel when this incident occurred, and that he stepped off the concrete hard and not the boat.

I advise him he is still solely responsible for any accident occurring in my dock, as is stated in my terms of business on my website.

He advises me that he had not seen my website as the booking was made by phone, and I hold a duty of care to provide a safe dock, and that I cannot use a set of unseen written terms to deny a possible claim of negligence.

Physically he only had a few bruises and was more concerned at having to pay for a replacement phone, that did not survive the drowning.

So ...

1 Am I as dock owner providing a charge for service obliged to explain this hazard in the form of a Risk assessment or similar and was I responsible to ensure this had been adequately explained.

What does adequate signage mean ?

2 Is my client who has fallen in responsible for his non knowledge of the design of my dock.

3 My client wants me to reimburse him for his wrecked phone and half his berthing fee as he only got half his work done as a result of being cold and by then somewhat hacked off.


Note in this hypothetical scenario 'I' might not be the owner !!!

 

[BruceK]

Now I know nothing but am jaded and appalled enough to know you'd probably get done anyway and have to call on the liability insurance or some other crutch against ambulance chasers and idiots alike. But take comfort in knowing that you simply cannot protect yourself from the ingenuity of fools and idiots. It just cant be done. I'd have had a good belly laugh and ticked it off as one of those incidents where said victim was just letting off steam and offer to get him a coffee and pickup his dry cleaning bill as a gesture of good will. His phone is his own insurance issue. Sadly those days appear to have gone.

 

[sorabain]

I'm guessing the roles have been reversed in your rendition. A 5' drop is pretty fierce especially if concealed at certain states of the tide by muddy water. I can imagine worse outcomes than a few bruises and losing a phone.

I have no legal background, but if the owner quickly referred to "terms and conditions" and showed no empathy i'd start to wonder if this has happened before and there's been no resolution -- maybe there is no easy resolution if there's no way he can build a more forgiving drop or place more obvious signage without impinging on the use of the dock, but if that's the case it sounds like it'd be sensible to make sure anyone booking to use the dock is made explicitly aware of the large drop that is not visible at the very times you're most likely to be walking towards it (i.e. tide has dropped enough to take a look around your hull)

 

[davidej]

My sympathy is definitely with the punter.

If it is used for scrubbing, the punter will arrive by water and expect to walk around the boat in a foot or so of muddy water. Thus, unless he was warned adequately of this hazard, he should be safe to do this.

A warning on the posts - or when be books to use it - IMHO is imperative.

 

[simonfraser]

that's a pretty steep drop off a concrete ramp where peeps are likely to walk.

recon you'd lose that court case unless very clearly marked, which i don't think it is.
i'd pay up and keep the punter happy.
then get some more signs.

 

[BruceK]

that's a pretty steep drop off a concrete ramp where peeps are likely to walk.

recon you'd lose that court case unless very clearly marked, which i don't think it is.
i'd pay up and keep the punter happy.
then get some more signs.

Yes but it's a drying dock, they almost all have ledges at the end. They silt up otherwise. Come on, it's not rocket science. Next the punter is going to trip over his shoelaces and fall off the pontoon and go harass the shoe seller that no warning signs are on his shoes representing the dangers of having untied shoe laces. You cant protect against muppetry. And if it was indeed the OP who fell in the water, hang your head for having a hissy fit.

 

[anoccasionalyachtsman]

Who'd really go onto any form of scrubbing area without having had a quick look at low tide beforehand? With luck and Google Earth, or even better if the owner had a good picture of it on his website I suppose you could save yourself the trouble.

 

[NorthUp]

Are the dock and ledge charted? Any competent skipper should have done his homework before committing to beaching there- what if you had grounded halfway onto the slip on a falling tide?

 

[Assassin]

I would contact your insurers first, and speak to their legal department to inform them of a potential claim.

You need to establish the "private record of the parties" as an absolute and this is your written record of the incident and any corroborating evidence such as witnesses and signage, and ensure this is a written document as any court only really works on documented evidence.

Use your insurers legal department as they will advise with a view to not paying out.

 

[julians]

I havent a clue who is at fault from a legal point of view , but if i was the person who had stepped off the ledge id just chalk it up to experience and move on ( and probably laugh about it in the pub later), but thats just me.

 

[benjenbav]

Forum and real-world lawyers could have a field day with this scenario. In addition to Assassin's suggestions I would be inclined to ask the insurers to carry out an inspection of the facility to look at signage etc and make any additional recommendations in order to minimise the potential for any repeat.

 

[Boat2016]

After seeing the hazards and all the muck on drying grids then hearing a friend complain about damage to his props when he got it wrong I have always thought with something the value of a decent boat you are better off paying to have it lifted with a travel hoist.

 

[BruceK]

Forum and real-world lawyers could have a field day with this scenario. In addition to Assassin's suggestions I would be inclined to ask the insurers to carry out an inspection of the facility to look at signage etc and make any additional recommendations in order to minimise the potential for any repeat.

I'm sure they would. I like the term "real-world". Just how apt it is in a litigious society though is questionable. Maybe I should take my own advice and have a trip on untied shoelaces. For the pension pot and all. It is after all a Nanny State and why should I be responsible for my own stupidity, oh hang on, that's not PC, lack of foresight is better yeah? Would it be discriminatory if there was a sign on the seaward side of the dock that said Stupid People Prohibited Without Responsible Adult?

 

[Bouba]

Put a chain and padlock across the dock with a large sign to say it’s closed because of this man, accompanied by his photo and name

 

[BruceK]

Put a chain and padlock across the dock with a large sign to say it’s closed because of this man, accompanied by his photo and name

Too harsh. Maybe a sign just before the drop off saying "Team Rodney past this point"

 

[Portofino]

Sign s not good enough - alone because there’s a whole legal industry of ambulance chasers relying on “ Rodney’s “ for there livelihoods .

Better than no sign or a sign in the wrong place ?

Prob in today’s “ all inclusive “ and litigation society

You assume folks can see ( not necessarily the helm , maybe a passenger? )
Think visual impairments.
You assume they understand English —- pretty multi cultural these days - increasingly in the UK up to March 19 ( sorry could not resist)
Have you got a disabled access policy ?

So in my view
Need a simple T+c s signing each page with the various hazards / risks explained verbally AND a translation and visual impairment risk assessment policy to be completed by the owner and punter together before , so you can eliminate candidates deemed not suitable like a blind guy in a wheel chair who cannot swim .
Once through that paperwork then the T+c,s

There’s more —-

A - cctv with internet cloud storage- punter signs a freedom of info consent for his data info being used in this way .
1- owner going through the docs and verbal explanation s ( with interpreter if necessary)
2- film of the site - ensuring punter complies .

That way your arse is fully covered .

 

[paul salliss]

It is always sad when a person who screws up has not got in him/ her to just say I screwed up ( as we all do from time to time) and instead employs a where there is blame there is a claim USA BS approach. While I would simply want to deck the individual reality is I would not. I would be his/ her friend and offer an olive branch so as could demonstrate I was being very reasonable and if that was not good enough would go to bed thinking I have stacked the cards in my favour now take ya chances Mr or Mrs Thick as pig shxt

 

[Firefly625]

it is quite obviously a death trap, the owner should be taken to court and hopefully imprisoned for running such a dangerous operation, I would hope it was immediately closed as quite possibly the next person could have sent his child to scrub the bottom of his boat and it may have been a far more serious incident!

the idea that a boat owner could possible wonder around under his or her boat while just tied to some posts is just insanity, what were they thinking!

at the very least I hope they were issued with a hard hat and a high vis jacket as everyone know this gives the wearer complete protection from a falling boat up to around 100 tonnes (although please check with your provider of such H&S gear as I understand there is some variance of protection depending on the colour of hard hat) .

 

[BruceK]

it is quite obviously a death trap, the owner should be taken to court and hopefully imprisoned for running such a dangerous operation, I would hope it was immediately closed as quite possibly the next person could have sent his child to scrub the bottom of his boat and it may have been a far more serious incident!

the idea that a boat owner could possible wonder around under his or her boat while just tied to some posts is just insanity, what were they thinking!

at the very least I hope they were issued with a hard hat and a high vis jacket as everyone know this gives the wearer complete protection from a falling boat up to around 100 tonnes (although please check with your provider of such H&S gear as I understand there is some variance of protection depending on the colour of hard hat) .

I think I'll have to have a word with the local marina. All those floating pontoons without a minimum 4.5 foot netted railing. I mean you might take a step to far on one of those too. Maybe I can wangle free mooring for a year while my clothes dry out and my PTSD abates. Do you think I'll be selling myself short at just one year?

 

[sorabain]

It is always sad when a person who screws up has not got in him/ her to just say I screwed up (as we all do from time to time) ...

Same applies to the dock owner if they screwed up putting up inadequate signage.

Much as health and safety is hated, safety in general has come a long way due to people who don't just assume that the victim is to blame or "should have known better", but actually took time to look at all the causal factors, including the less obvious ones.

My other hobby is railways. The RAIB incident reports are eye-opening. In many cases of incidents there is one "obvious" cause that most people would stop at (the driver passed a red signal, what an idiot!) but when looked at in detail there may have been genuine cause for concern regarding the layout or visibility of signals, or lack of some kind of audible reminder device etc. Railway safety is greatly improved due to the careful approach of the RAIB, when we might otherwise still be stuck with semaphore signals and no driver aids as they "should be good enough for anyone"