So...how exactly do you define "classic"?

[Downsman]

I have it on good authority that my Nic 32 is a classic because when I moved from my berth to another, I put the wheel over, a touch of engine astern and she went completely the wrong way. Berthing Master on the pontoon said " That's bloody classic that is, classic"
So that's me categorized then...:encouragement:

 

[Eyore]

I have it on good authority that my Nic 32 is a classic because when I moved from my berth to another, I put the wheel over, a touch of engine astern and she went completely the wrong way. Berthing Master on the pontoon said " That's bloody classic that is, classic"
So that's me categorized then...:encouragement:

Cant argue with that

 

[PhillM]

This is what is says on the Cowes Clasics Website:

http://cowesclassicsweek.org/design-and-features/classic-cruisers

I have no idea what the word "classic" mean to others. Some of the above comments resonate with me...

Designed and built over 50 years ago.

Is older than me (she is 55 and I'm 48 - so only just)

Wooden - I still don't get GRP "memory class" boats like crabbers etc. That said, I do get Nic's. Confused or what!

Has been MAB AND has had a fortune spent on her

People always say how nice she is then tell me they wouldn't want "all that work"

I go with the view that if your boat is a classic to you, then she is a classic.

 

[ffiill]

Some might say that if it's got a plastic toilet seat it's a bit too modern mightn't they!
Would a Contessa or British Steel be excluded? MAB's, such as mine are probably mostly included. There's bound to be a definition along the lines of 'It can't be a classic if you're able to sail it more than work on it!'. If there isn't, there is now....

Well my old wooden boat has a Baby Blake toilet-with a plastic(maybe Bakerlite)seat and lead plumbing.
That makes it as old as the boat-67 years

 

[Mad Pad]

This is classic.
Don't know how the Castle got there as well,not very good at this stuff..anyway 'spose it's classic as well!

 

[chal]

I find the whole restoration thing interesting from the point of view of "classicness".

Like most of us, I regard my boat as a classic, but it was not designed by anyone famous: it was built by a small yard that built fishing smacks from about 1900 till about 1930, then built yachts till the war closed the yard. Mine was one of the last, launched in 1939, but built very much in the same way as the boats built in the same yard 30 years earlier, pitch pine on oak hull and deck, and all the coamings of acres of incredibly thick, solid teak - I don't know what all that cost at the time as she was built for someone who worked at the yard, but I know the earlier ones were built for £125 for hull, ironwork and spars!

Chal has a very traditional hull form:



plus such goodies as offset prop, rudder the size and weight of a barn door, and a bowsprit that adds almost another third to her length; she still has the original gaff cutter rig with loose footed main, and isn't encumbered by such modern items as safety rails.

But, as you can see in the picture, she has aluminium spars: she was owned from 1957 to 1984 by someone who clearly looked after her well (he fitted a baby blake amongst other things) and in the 1970s he replaced the original timber spars, which by then were 40 years old, with new ones. I imagine it would have been cheaper to just get hold of a telegraph pole but he had the spars specially made to the exact measurements of the old ones, and retained all the original galvanised fittings. At the time, this was obviously an improvement, but is now regarded as detracting from Chal's classic status - several people have suggested chucking the spars and replacing them with wooden ones. (I'm not going to, I've got used to them, they don't need maintaining in the way everything else does, and they are part of the boat's history now anyway.) There are other compromises too: the sails are pretty ancient but still a modern fabric, not cotton or flax. I've replaced all the running rigging and used synthetic hemp but couldn't afford new wooden blocks and have compromised with tufnol. Overall, though, there is still a good deal of the original boat remaining: the odd strake has been replaced and so has the covering board but most of the timber is original.

On the other hand, I know some boats that are older and have wooden spars and wooden blocks etc, but to be honest there is hardly a stick of the original left, after restorations/rebuilds that are pretty much new boats built to the same design. There is a chap in the Netherlands who used to own one of Chal's sister yachts and now owns and is restoring an older smack from the same yard. His photo websites are here:

• Lillibullero (the yacht) http://albert1906.smugmug.com/Boats/Lillibullero/Lillibullero/
• Albert (the smack) http://albert1906.smugmug.com/albert/

I'm actually pretty envious to be honest, I wish I had the time and money to lavish the sort of care on Chal that he has put into both these boats, but not to be too sour-grapes-ish, there really isn't much of the original Albert left, and I could argue that in that sense Chal is actually more of a classic, despite the spars.

 

[dancrane]

...I could argue that in that sense Chal is actually more of a classic, despite the spars.

Maximum respect...heaven help anyone who doesn't believe Chal is a true classic, or disapproves of her intelligent updating. :encouragement:

 

[PhillM]

Maximum respect...heaven help anyone who doesn't believe Chal is a true classic, or disapproves of her intelligent updating. :encouragement:

+1 very impressed.

I always struggle with the concept of "wholly original" because times, people and opinions do change.

Should I have a log, should I have a depth? what about GPS? Plotter? AIS and so on.

I like Dan's phrase "intelligent updating". Unless its in a museum a classic boat needs to be usable in today's waters and if you want family involvement, at least reaching the minimum of today's standards of safety, comfort and hygiene.

 

[chal]

thanks - both - for the kind words!

And yes, I too have a GPS and a depth sounder

 

[macnorton]

Wooden - I still don't get GRP "memory class" boats like crabbers etc. That said, I do get Nic's. Confused or what!.

But this page is "Classic AND wooden boats", which to me means that GRP, Steel and Ferro etc are included? the Clyde Puffer is both steel and a classic is it not?

 

[dancrane]

And yes, I too have a GPS and a depth sounder

Very wise, too. Who dares to estimate how many excellent and beautiful boats without echo-sounders and GPS were lost because of not knowing their whereabouts/depth of water?

I can understand the objection at visual anachronisms - because brash, conspicuous modernity may not sit easily aboard a boat whose appearance is mainly splendidly historical.

And anyone who's been driven nuts by persistent on-board electrical trouble, will have daydreamed about days when sailors coped with just oil-lamp, lead & line and acute senses...

...but we can't easily imagine the statistical inevitability of a grim proportion of yesteryear's boats being wrecked...that's how reliably safe technology has made us, for the most part.

Denying an old boat the latest, safest systems would be spitting in the eyes of chaps who knew these boats in the old days, and who would certainly have used our hi-tech options.

 

[PhillM]

But this page is "Classic AND wooden boats", which to me means that GRP, Steel and Ferro etc are included? the Clyde Puffer is both steel and a classic is it not?

I totally agree with you. Material isn't , err material to the matter. Design is, history is and personal opinion is.

 

[onesea]

The classic rating is defined by the number of people who say she looks fabulous multiplied by the number who say they wouldn't want to own it!

I think there is more truth in that than is being given credit for.

In my view though wooden boats are no longer classics but vintage. Worth owning & maintaining if pretty or functional. Just because they have survived that long.

To me a classic has an x factor it can be mass produced old or relatively young. It just needs to stand out from the crowd have presence.

First of an era last of an era or just stood out from its era.

Many Westerlies will be come vintage early ones probably already are. If many can become true classics could be debated.

Contessa's, J 24's, most Swans already assured there place as classics to me..

 

[Eyore]

But this page is "Classic AND wooden boats", which to me means that GRP, Steel and Ferro etc are included? the Clyde Puffer is both steel and a classic is it not?

Correct, but at the end of the day when all is said and done wood is an important and defining factor. Wooden boats consist of thousands of individual bits, crafted by human beings whose legacy is the skill put into the construction. Unfortunately the lovliest Fife built in GRP, steel or concrete just isn't the same. Those materials don't and couldent possibly stir the soul the way timber does.
Nonetheless, I do agree there are some awesome non wooden classics out there.

 

[gordmac]

I get the impression here that for a boat to be considered classic, first and foremost it has to be a saily thing. Very limiting and such a shame.

 

[PhillM]

I get the impression here that for a boat to be considered classic, first and foremost it has to be a saily thing. Very limiting and such a shame.

I disagree. There are some very lovely Huntsman boats around the Hamble. One in particular has had a fortune spent on her and she looks showroom new. Sounds awesome too.

And what about those lovely Riva's.

Personally, I like my stick and rag, but each to their own.

I respect any owner prepared to put the time, love, energy and money into keeping a classic boat in top condition regardless of if it sails or motors.

 

[Searush]

I get the impression here that for a boat to be considered classic, first and foremost it has to be a saily thing. Very limiting and such a shame.

Even I don't agree with you on that. Clearly, most of the frozen snot wedge-shaped planing clones are never going to be classics, but a Grand Banks or many other trawler yachts could be classics, the Huntsmens etc have already been mentioned & there are still quite a few gentlemen's motor yachts around that have stood the test of time.

I once had a ride on a Venice water taxi that was a slipper launch in style with a humungous Mercedes engine that was all gleaming chrome & varnish, once out of the controlled area he opened it up a bit for our entertainment & it flew - that was certainly a classic, as are many steam launches.

 

[dancrane]

Dell Quay dories have been around so long, and the distinctive shape and vast ruggedness & weight for such a little boat - 440lb, 13ft - make it a minor classic in a way, to my eyes.

Not to mention lots of speedboats - I raised the question last year on the mobo forum - why do I remember speedboats having bench seats, when new ones rarely do? Apparently the straddle-seats in today's RIBs encourage a half-standing posture which makes it easier to absorb the impact of slamming into a wave...

...so to my mind, any low-profile speedboat where the passengers sit on a bench behind a low windscreen, has a classic air about it - they take my mind back several decades to the days when I wanted a motor boat myself. I've never coveted the modern RIB or speedboat. I'd say the roomy 'bowrider' designs aren't classic, either. Horrid. In my view.