So, broker or no broker?

I can see that someone being a member of an Owners Association could be a useful thing - and probably essential if a vessel was needed to be kept "in class".

But I think stretching the point wayyyyyyyyy too far to say that non-membership is a bad thing on a boat that is simply an (older) boat.

Nonetheless "every little helps" and as a buyer I would certainly consider a vessel having an owners association was a good thing for me, whether or not the Vendor was a member. and whether or not I actually joined! FWIW, I joined the Seadog Owners Association because at the time is was pretty much the only Seadog thing on the Internet (now fixed! - even on Facebook nowadays!)........and because it was free :).....which probably accounts for the high percentage membership figures.
 
I'm in the Moody Owners Association and up until last year my boat was a heap................but that's because we were living aboard with two kids under five. :p
 
I always join car and boat clubs they are an invaluable source of knowledge, parts and usually fun social events.

Recent research on Cornish Yawls has brought new information to light on them, brought owners together and has kick started the Crabber Club. Just another very good reason to buy a Cornish Yawl as well as the fact that they are obviously drop dead gorgeous ;)

Time for some pretty pictures, I believe the top one is exceptionally nice :D

yawl-kindred-spirit-_pics233-23307.jpg

2214.jpg
 
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Zagato said:
Time for some pretty pictures, I believe the top one is exceptionally nice :D

yawl-kindred-spirit-_pics233-23307.jpg
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Hey!

That's me, that is :D

First time I've ever come across a picture that anyone else has taken. And I used to regularly peruse yourboatpix.co.uk hoping that someone would have done.

Got any more?

Pete
 
Looks nice :)

So a Cornish Yawl is a Cornish Crabber with an extra stick :cool: .....I didn't know that (thought it was the larger one). Perhaps something to bear in mind when writing the marketing spiel.

I can see why you like the first photo best. But I think for selling the second is better, but would be even better if she was on the other tack as can then see a touch more of the boat. I would also include a pic of her anchored somewhere idylic (with some sun!) - remember also selling a dream, even to those who do know that pic won't be 99% of the ownership! - but also a lot more of a wife freindly pic than the first one! (on average).

All IMO etc of course.

If she is half as nice as the pic suggests then a sale should not be a problem - only a question of how quick and how much.
 
Me_has_a_Boat said:
So a Cornish Yawl is a Cornish Crabber with an extract stick :cool: .....I didn't know that (thought it was the larger one). Perhaps something to bear in mind when writing the marketing spiel.
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It's somewhat similar to the Crabber 24, yes, but not quite the same. I used to think that they used the same hull moulding with a different deck, but in fact having seen photos of Zagato's Crabber they're both different (strong family resemblance though). I also read somewhere that the Yawl hull is deeper, not sure if they used that for more headroom or a lower coachroof (it's definitely sleeker than the boxy thing on top of their current boats).

Good point in linking them together, might catch someone who thought they wanted a Crabber 24 :)

Me_has_a_Boat said:
I can see why you like the first photo best. But I think for selling the second is better
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The first is me, on my boat. The second is somebody else's :)

I will be taking photos specifically for sale, showing the whole boat clearly.

I don't have any of her anchored somewhere idyllic, and am unlikely to get any, but I do have her parked on a sandy beach in the sunshine which shows what you can do with this kind of boat.

Pete
 
MHAB, The larger Crabber is the Pilot LOD 30', LOA 39'

The Yawl was made roughly from 1988 to 1994 lifting keel, or bilge plates or both!

yawl.jpg


The Crabber 24 is a Gaff Cutter made from 1995 to present day, has the same hull as the Yawl but is now longkeel and has a different deck layout with more spacious cockpit and cabin, roughly 2003 models onwards have higher top sides!
The Cornish Cutter 24 is identical to the Crabber 24 but has a Bermudan Cutter rig and again is still available today for about 90K.

IMG_2920.jpg


The second picture in my previous post is of a different boat to the first.

Sorry Pete, I havn't any more pics of Kindrid Spirit...

http://www.pixstel.com/search.php?kw=yawls
 
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Zagato said:
The Yawl was made roughly from 1988 to 1994 lifting keel, or bilge plates or both!
The Crabber 24 is a Gaff Cutter made from 1995 to present day, has the same hull as the Yawl but is now longkeel and has more spacious cockpit and cabin
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Not quite the same hull. The Yawl has a continuous curve from stem to heel, whereas the Crabber has more of a distinction between forefoot and keel. Both are long keel boats, most also have centreboards. Some yawls have the bilge fins, but since they're relatively small and don't extend below the central keel, to call such boats bilge-keelers would be misleading. They're as much to keep the boat upright when drying out as for their hydrodynamic properties.

Moving the cockpit aft into the Yawl's lazarette does give more living space on the Crabber, presumably at the cost of stowage space (the hull's no bigger!)

Pete
 
Pete I said bilge plates not bilge keel. The main hull body if you like is identical but the long keel part is 6" deeper than the Yawls (keel up!).

The deck, cockpit and cabin on the Crabber is different on the Yawl. Without the Mizzen they reduced the area behind the cockpit enabling them to lengthen the cabin and cockpit whilst putting in a single smaller locker. You only gain inches but it makes the heads room a bit more manageable!! You can see all this on the technical drawings. The other noticeable difference is that the cabin height continues past the mast giving more headroom inside. It doesn't matter in a Yawl with a lifting keel as it is difficult to stand up their but handy on the Crabber.
 
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Have to say the biggest thing I will miss is the Mizzen, apart from the looks it's such a handy sail to have and really balances the boat well...

No reefing needed, makes the boat more manouverable in tight spots by ease of using the mizzen not the main (e.g estuary sailing or going down through Itchenor Reach!), great at anchor when everyone else is having a rough time.

Crabber say they discontinued the Yawl because people "couldn't handle the extra string" - great shame although a mizzen has been put into a Crabber 24 under Roger Dongrays guidance. From the same customer feedback they also decided to give the option of a Bermudan Rig Crabber - again less string and people not being used to a Gaff Rig, it sold well so I suppose they were right but it doesn't have the charm of wood and Gaff...here is one

Embletonundersail.jpg
 
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Sails like one as well apart from the jib and staysail...some have Genoas instead. Most Cornish Cutters have cream sails, mine also has a powder coated cream mast but they no longer do this...

Not sure if this will come out OK

Cyawl1.jpg

Cyawl2.jpg
 
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prv said:
I know the person who started a thread doesn't own it and get to boss everyone else around, but I do wish the pair of you would take your pointless bickering elsewhere :)

Pete
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Sorry - would have responded earlier but I was too busy joining the Anderson 22 class association... :D
 
I'm fairly new here so by the time YBW have moderated this it will probably no longer be relevant but here goes.....

I really like jonic's style and thank him for bigging up the independent brokers! I try to do everything he lists but believe me it's not always easy, and often it's the buyers who cause the problems.
One thing I'd like to add, with some trepidation, is that the value of boat is quite relevant to whether or not a broker is used. The OP's boat probably falls right on the cusp of should / shouldn't, which makes his original question all the more pertinent.
The ironic thing is that, while with the smaller lower value boats there's obviously much less reason to use a broker i.e. less risk involved, reluctance to let any of the achieved price be lost on comission etc; it tends to be down at this end of the market you get the more difficult buyers! If you're thin-skinned or short-tempered a broker might be a big help to you ;)
I've been trying to diospose of a Mirage 28 at a very low price for a friend on ebay and you wouldn't believe some of the nonsense I've had to put up with.
The OP seems to be web-savvy and all of the advice about making your own website etc. is undoubtedly good. But as jonic has pointed out, getting the leads is only part of the whole thing. With respect, a lot of the strongest proponents of the private website / sale have done it mostly with smaller, lower value boats.
I think the value of the OP's boat is just getting into the bracket where there will be a certain percentage of good buyers who aren't 100% comfortable with giving over that kind of money to a private individual (comments about escrow / conveyancing notwithstanding). Remember a private seller doesn't have a reputation to protect, whereas a broker is nothing without his. Buyers instinctively understand this - remember you were all buyers once!

I find with higher value boats it all changes markedly. Sellers don't have the time, or aren't interested in dealing with buyers. Buyers don't trust private sellers with that amount of money. The people tend to be much more straightforward, and could probably manage fine without a broker. :D But they almost alway use them. Such is life. Make no mistake, brokers have to work extremely hard to get to list high-value boats, and it takes years to built that kind of position in the industry. Which is why it can be dis-illusioning to find that some people hate brokers out of hand anyway: coming from the hands-on side of the marine trade I found this unsettling, but I'm getting used to it! :)

To get right back to the original question, to the OP I'd say with your kind of boat there's every chance you'll get interested, genuine buyers, so if you have the time and inclination to do the viewings, and can make your own website, then go for it without a broker. If you can enlist someone like jonic with a conveyancing-only service (good idea, that ;)) then all the better.
Only sting in the tail is that, in the event that you don't get her sold and run out of time or whatever, brokers tend to be much less keen on boats that have failed to sell privately for ages before being brought to them.
Best of luck,
R.
 
I've sold 3 boats, Centaur through personal contact, Moody 346 via YM advert (25 enquiries in one month) and a Berwick through a broker.

Unfortunately, my experience with that particular broker wasn't good. Each time he had an enquiry, I had to show people around (80 miles each way) because he was always too busy. When I delivered the boat to the marina for hand over, the new owners weren't present and he refused point blank to check and sign the inventory. No reduction for **** service, he still wanted his 5% + VAT!
 
GrahamM376 said:
I've sold 3 boats, Centaur through personal contact, Moody 346 via YM advert (25 enquiries in one month) and a Berwick through a broker.

Unfortunately, my experience with that particular broker wasn't good. Each time he had an enquiry, I had to show people around (80 miles each way) because he was always too busy. When I delivered the boat to the marina for hand over, the new owners weren't present and he refused point blank to check and sign the inventory. No reduction for **** service, he still wanted his 5% + VAT!
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I'm sorry to hear that. The odd time I will ask a seller to do a viewing, but only if they live right by their boat. I'd never ask them to travel.

Sometimes it's beneficial to keep sellers away from buyers! Don't mean to sound disrespectful, but a heavily-attached seller can in some cases be the kiss of death to a sale; I believe a broker who tries to get his clients to do all the viewings is making a mistake.

If you're unhappy with a broker's service you could notify ABYA or BRBA or whoever they belong to: we work hard to get membership of these associations and they exist to weed out poor service.

R.
 
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