Small Motorsailer

sailing fast is over-rated.

I can see that a boat that sails fast is a wonderful thing to have if you sail in the same place all the time.

Once I have been on a the same river for a month or six I soon do less watching of the river and more tweaking of the boat

However, sailing slowly around a new area is a wonderful thing to do

I like to sail slowly into a new river and will often have no more than a tiny bit of genoa out just to give me steerage in the stream

When there is a good blow on I would rather sail the centaur and Katie L upright but with a third of the canvas rather than having either boat blast along on her ear.

I am more than willing to trade a knot or more for a bit of comfort

You can often sail more slow miles in a long day than fast miles in a fast boat

I even used to enjoy sailing the mirror offshore

so the ability to sail at 45 degrees to the wind with no leeway is aver-rated unless you have a racing boat

such as an eboat or sonata.

I took me mate Martin up the Butley

fnaa

and he seemed amazed when I rolled the genoa away and sailed just under the main

it was so that I could sail slower and savour the moment

I myself would love a Fisher that would not fall over

It would be a brilliant boat for the west coast of Ireland

For starters it would allow you to sail on two consecutive wet days

on the Centaur you can sail for one wet day but the next day has got to be a drying day otherwise you become overwhelmed with damp inside the cabin.
 
Is there a middle ground

Always fancied a boat in the motorsailer category, around 32 feet but can't afford the madness of new nauticats/nordships and so on but don't want the joys of a late seventies machine with the inevitable attendant problems. I am reasonable DIY handy but not up to serious refurb work. What is out there in the 30 to 50k mark?
 
Lazy Kipper said:
He's not listening, he made his mind up with a brief glance as his A22 flew past, planning in a F2. There's a couple of F25's on the Deben, and a real beauty at Ramsholt moorings. She just looks right, a beautiful design.
Click to expand...

Hardly a brief glance as I've seen the things for 30-odd years !

You keep pllodding growing tomatos in your greenhouse and keep to port as actual sailibg boats go by :)
 
I was out aboard Rhoda Rose (Colvic Watson 28 ketch) the other day. Me, my old mum and my dog. As we passed a lovely 40 footer, leaving her mooring, raising sails etc I had a pang of sailing envy I must confess.

We were passing Osea Island about half an hour later, a nasty squall passed over, heavy rain and vis down to afew hundred yards. So we closed the windows, shut the wheelhouse,door and put the wipers on, just,as the big Westerly overtook us. I glanced at the four crew huddled in the cockpit, full oilies on, hoods up and looking cold and miserable. I took a sip of tea, and grinned as we continued SAILING at 4.5kts.

Done my time in open cockpits and have to say with our climate, I happily sacrifice a bit of speed for the civilised comfort of my wheelhouse. Looking forward to winter sailing as never before.

Each to his own :-)
 
Sophie19 said:
I was out aboard Rhoda Rose (Colvic Watson 28 ketch) the other day. Me, my old mum and my dog. As we passed a lovely 40 footer, leaving her mooring, raising sails etc I had a pang of sailing envy I must confess.

We were passing Osea Island about half an hour later, a nasty squall passed over, heavy rain and vis down to afew hundred yards. So we closed the windows, shut the wheelhouse,door and put the wipers on, just,as the big Westerly overtook us. I glanced at the four crew huddled in the cockpit, full oilies on, hoods up and looking cold and miserable. I took a sip of tea, and grinned as we continued SAILING at 4.5kts.

Done my time in open cockpits and have to say with our climate, I happily sacrifice a bit of speed for the civilised comfort of my wheelhouse. Looking forward to winter sailing as never before.

Each to his own :-)
Click to expand...

well written that man

D
 
Sophie19 said:
Done my time in open cockpits; with our climate, I happily sacrifice a bit of speed for the civilised comfort of my wheelhouse. Looking forward to winter sailing as never before.
Click to expand...

Sensible words, which I reckon are felt very heartily by UK sailing folk, many times per year. Hence I often ask, why is it we buy so few sailboats with interior helm positions?

The high relative cost of motorsailers (due to their bigger engines, more complicated coachroof mouldings, bigger tankage etc) doesn't seem to me to explain why fewer are built - after all, nobody needs a yacht, so who would willingly buy one which, for the sake of perhaps a 15% saving, fails so badly at being comfortable in our regularly poor weather?

Seems to me that whatever the buyer loses in value-per-foot because of a motor-sailer's higher price, will be more than repaid by the fun of being able to continue using her during seasons when being aboard an open-cockpit boat really isn't pleasurable.

The odd thing to me is the fact that even when they're old and cheap, motor-sailers' benefits don't seem to make them very highly sought-after. Do we like getting wet and cold?
 
I went for a small, old and cheap motorsailor (Swin Ranger).

I'm more into watching the wildlife at anchor and enjoying the quayside pubs than bashing upwind. It suits me fine. It does have an interior wheel but it's not not much of an asset on a 22 footer. Noisy when motoring and only useful for long offwind sailing in poxy weather. I would love to have the option of buying a modern version of the SR.

If I get monstered in a pissing contest with an Anderson 22 - well, I suspect I'll get over it.
 
In Ardglass earlier this year First Mate was very taken with a Francis 34. So was I.

As only six were ever made, it seems unlikely that when ready for a change we will be able to find one.

Pity-it tick all our boxes.
 
Sophie19 said:
Done my time in open cockpits and have to say with our climate, I happily sacrifice a bit of speed for the civilised comfort of my wheelhouse. Looking forward to winter sailing as never before.

Each to his own :-)
Click to expand...

At 35 degrees we go as much sideways as we do forwards! At 45 degrees we start to make proper progress at 55 degrees plus. So we looked at that narrow window between 35 (the closest anyone really sails to the wind) and 55 degrees and decoded we'd just motor sail in that gap. Then we changed the rig and the sails to suit, we have a yankee cut genoa so that we have all plain sail up to and including a F6, we had a huge chute made that will set from 55 to 170 degrees and we fly that up to about 17 knots when we start to get a bit scarred :)

The upshot is that we can motor really well and sail rather well in F2.5 upwards.

View attachment 46466

I know we don't sail as well as other sailing boats - we weigh 12 tonnes and have a long keel and high windage. But like good motor sailers we are good enough at both. Sophie19's CW28 is one of the finest sailing motor-sailers around but if you want to go smaller you'd struggle to find a better one than the F25.

I wish we didn't have to compromise on sailing performance but wow are there some big paybacks in comfort & stability! I like Dylan's comments about the difference between slow miles and fast miles, it's about how happy it makes you, speed for speed's sake is just a number.
 
Well I initially was in the market for something along the lines of a 23 ft Colvic. But found that the mast was not good at being dropped for bridges. I then found the swin ranger.
My criteria were:
I had to be able to stand up in side.
It had to fit under a 6Ft bridge
It had to have a draft of no more than 3ft.
All met by the swin ranger
I found a really good one but it cost!
I replaced the noisy yanmar engine for a much nicer beta 20,
New sails,electronics,etc.
New cushions made and linings for the inside.
It has cost me as much a two centaurs but for me its the perfect boat.
Don't give up on the swin ranger yet.
 
Just remembered one for the consideration list - Master Mariner. I'm sure they come with bilge plates; lovely one at Granary on the Deben, we watched him short tacking up the river on the last of the flood and it sailed nicely. Inside and outside helm and a decent cockpit.

import_16778-4.jpg



http://gweekquay.co.uk/index.php?option=com_brokerage&id=54&view=boat&Itemid=34
 
Total thread drift, I apologise...but the earlier mention of the Frances 34 awoke only a very vague memory in me, so here's a picture to go with the name. Very nice yacht:

Frances-34-Hoofdfoto.jpg
 
Frances 34 is a good yacht - copied the great Vancouver 34 (Pilot) though of which I would guess there were 20 or more made.

Back on topic - not seen the Swin Ranger before - looks like a great little yacht.
 
Eyore said:
Nothing of that size to equal a Fisher 25 either in terms of looks or seaworthiness and its easily handled by one person.
Click to expand...

At a marina near me I looked at a Fisher 25 for sale and when I went back 2 days later it had been sold.
A month later I came across a Colvic Watson 23'6 which was basically sound but needed TLC and I paid half what I would have paid for the Fisher 25.

I bought it and had it transported to the same marina where the Fisher 25 is. My boat in on a cradle and when they lifted the Fisher out of the water it went into a cradle next to my Colvic Watson.

And I kept looking at both boats and wondered where the 18" difference was if the Fisher was 25ft.

So not having a tape measure I put a halyard on my waterline and marked where it ended.
I then measured the Fisher 25 and it is shorter. By about 4 inches.

But in fact it is shorter than that, as the Fisher has a transom hung rudder which is about 1ft long and the Colvic has the rudder underneath, therefore the hull is longer.

I think also on the Fisher it has a more pointed bow and the stern slopes backwards, thus adding length.

Up to now I have not yet had my CW out at sea but the person who runs the CW Owners club aparrently had just over 7knots when out sailing.
After working on the CW for the last year I am impressed with the build quality and accommodation in such a small boat.

and I am not a newcomer to boats as I have had 9 boats in 40 years, my favourite was either a Moody 30 or a 33ft Nauticat.

Although Fishers are very collectable if I had the choice between a Fisher 25 for £25,000 or a CW 23'6" at £15,000 I would go for the CW.
Mind you there are some very cheap CW's out there, I looked at another one and it was dreadful.
Its all down to how they have been looked after.
 
While an A22 might well shoot past in a ' pissing contest ' I reckon the Swin Ranger and Cox ( ? ) Master Mariner are jolly good for their intended use, maybe not something to fire the adralin and make the heart sing, but a comfy home on the water to watch the wildlife from, and to be honest I use my Anderson far more for that these days, in the Solent they seem to see us coming ! :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top