Small Motorsailer

Lazy Kipper said:
You're right about all the exploring that's possible. It's the payoff for the other problems because big heavy displacement behemoths like the Lazy Kipper don't come with a pair of bilge keels. It's a shame because I like drying out, I rather like anchoring as well though, gently swinging to the tide.

In my youth we had a Hurley 22 and in our first year dad insisted on us having a two week holiday on board. I have never felt so cramped in my life. No personal space, no privacy, loo was a bucket in the cockpit, we cooked & washed up in the cockpit too and swam rather than washed. We smelled, quarrelled ate and farted, never more than a few feet from each other. We dried out each tide beautifully but my mum never went on board one of his boats again. I'm not certain but I don't think my two brothers did either. He sold the boat a year later. Drying out is magical some times, it just comes at too high a price for this East coaster with a family.

Toward the end of that holiday we were passed by a Westerly Centaur, pah says Dad, it's just a floating caravan. We all agreed, we knew the right mantra to speak. But I still remember the wistful look in my mother's eye and I wondered how it would be to have a shit on the boat without the neighbouring yachts at anchor watching you in the cockpit.
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we used to race an eboat

and laughed at the Centaur caravans

now I own one

how things change
 
Sophie19,

+1, I know one of those boats and it seems ideal.

The Fisher 25 is a pretty dreadful sailing boat unless off the wind in a gale but would suit Dylan's chum nicely, if the mud is soft enough; with its' shallow keel and fatarse bilges it should stay vaguely upright in soft stuff !

With any such boat the engine will be all-important, so a re-engined boat would be worth looking for.

I agree with Dylan yacht legs are no answer on a mooring, either pounding with horrible stresses on a hard seabed or sinking in one side and causing horrible stresses in soft stuff...Much more likely to cause serious problems than be an easy solution for an unsuitable boat or place.
 
Seajet said:
The Fisher 25 is a pretty dreadful sailing boat unless off the wind in a gale but would suit Dylan's chum nicely, if the mud is soft enough; with its' shallow keel and fatarse bilges it should stay vaguely upright in soft stuff !

.
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WRONG!

Not close winded but is a far better sailing boat than prejudiced people such as yourself give it credit for.
 
If I had had the cash I would have bought a Fisher 25.....theres more to sailing than going to windward...... tea drinking whilst observing the harbour activity in the dry.
 
Seajet said:
Sophie19,

+1, I know one of those boats and it seems ideal.

The Fisher 25 is a pretty dreadful sailing boat unless off the wind in a gale but would suit Dylan's chum nicely, if the mud is soft enough; with its' shallow keel and fatarse bilges it should stay vaguely upright in soft stuff !

With any such boat the engine will be all-important, so a re-engined boat would be worth looking for.
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A closed mind is a terrible thing to have SJ, especially allied to inflexible opinions about boats you have no meaningful experience of. I love your devotion to the A22, it's a genuine treasure of our forum; but clearly you have no idea what you're on about here, the Fisher 25 is a cracking sailer at 45 degrees plus. They've got decent power to weight ratio in the sail area and nice lines. Lovely boat in my opinion, nicer to look at than the equivalent Colvic Watsons which are a bit bath toy looking but have a longer waterline length and much better internal volume so they sail better and have more room, they also cost waaaaaaay less.
 
Lazy Kipper,

no closed mind here, I rather fancy the appeal of an enclosed wheelhouse !

However one doesn't get such luxuries without penalties.

I have owned boats from Swallows and Amazons type dinghies as an 8 year old to high performance jobs, and various cruisers, not just Anderson 22's.

One look from an even vaguely experienced eye tells that the Fisher 25 is a lump, with a lot of wetted area, frontal drag, windage, high volume and tiny rig - it would be hard pushed to sail out of a wet paper bag, the engine is the Prime Mover !

This is fine for people like Dylans' chum who want that sort of thing, but the sails are Plan B...
 
Seajet said:
Lazy Kipper,

no closed mind here, I rather fancy the appeal of an enclosed wheelhouse !

However one doesn't get such luxuries without penalties.

I have owned boats from Swallows and Amazons type dinghies as an 8 year old to high performance jobs, and various cruisers, not just Anderson 22's.

One look from an even vaguely experienced eye tells that the Fisher 25 is a lump, with a lot of wetted area, frontal drag, windage, high volume and tiny rig - it would be hard pushed to sail out of a wet paper bag, the engine is the Prime Mover !

This is fine for people like Dylans' chum who want that sort of thing, but the sails are Plan B...
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I would suggest that instead of just looking at it you ask someone for a sail in one. It's a shocking thought but you could be just maybe, how can I put this - wrong. I know it will be the first time and therefore unlikely, but who knows, there's a first time for almost everyone.

Still good to see on another thread that A22's are selling well, fellow owners are lucky to have your tireless promotion. Just think, if you'd ended up with a small motor sailer then Fisher owners would have benefitted likewise from high residual prices and a strong following of very happy owners and former owners. Oh hang on, they have that anyway, can't be anything to do with how they sail surely? :D
 
SeaJet - you are not taking in what people who HAVE ACTUALLY SAILED THESE BOATS are saying.

I spent the majority of my sailing time racing either in dinghies or yachts between 32 and 45 feet - some quite successfully and believe me these boats (F25) do sail well, much better than anticipated.

They are no racing machine but neither are they the tub that you are depicting from your "trained eye". Go get a ride in one and be surprised!!

Apologies to Dylan for the thread drift.
 
E39mad said:
SeaJet - you are not taking in what people who HAVE ACTUALLY SAILED THESE BOATS are saying.

I spent the majority of my sailing time racing either in dinghies or yachts between 32 and 45 feet - some quite successfully and believe me these boats (F25) do sail well, much better than anticipated.

They are no racing machine but neither are they the tub that you are depicting from your "trained eye". Go get a ride in one and be surprised!!

Apologies to Dylan for the thread drift.
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thread drift is good - it is a sign of a healthy board

I myself am very angry about cyclists on the A1
 
Seajet said:
One look from an even vaguely experienced eye tells that the Fisher 25 is a lump, with a lot of wetted area, frontal drag, windage, high volume and tiny rig - it would be hard pushed to sail out of a wet paper bag, the engine is the Prime Mover !

This is fine for people like Dylans' chum who want that sort of thing, but the sails are Plan B...
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Does not look that tiny to me -

View attachment 46437 A22a.jpg
 
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Nice profile view of the sloop version, Storyline, I didn't have that one.

In spite of sharing Dylan's aversion to boats which can't dry out upright, I find I'm drawn once more (if only in dreams) towards this snug little motor-sailer.

I still like the idea of the sloop's mainmast seated c.2ft ahead of its standard position, allowing a bigger mizzen in its standard position, plus a bowsprit and cutter front-end...

...and accommodation switched to give two comfy couches big enough to sleep on in the saloon, a loo in the fo'cs'le and a full-beam galley area where Northshore put the loo.
 
We changed our ketch Colvic Watson to sloop this year Dan and its a big improvement. The mizzen added nothing and wasn't much less hassle than the main to get up. At 100 degrees plus it was a liability adding a twisting moment and therefore weather helm. It was small so did nothing to speed us up. The mast is two feet further back than the ketch and LK was designed as a sloop. Someone had added the mizzen at a later date.
 
I base my comments on the Fisher 25's sailing performance on sailing past them like they seemed to be standing still...The A22 might be fast - like the other boats I have owned and sailed - but is no racing machine, I get the strong impression though that the F25 is not a rewarding boat for a sailor, while good in other respects like shelter from the elements.

She should indeed be spiffing for Dylans' chum, I wonder if bilge keels could be added, if one researched the originals, got a designer in or more likely just applied common sense with a bit of engineering ?
 
Seajet said:
I base my comments on the Fisher 25's sailing performance on sailing past them like they seemed to be standing still...The A22 might be fast - like the other boats I have owned and sailed - but is no racing machine, I get the strong impression though that the F25 is not a rewarding boat for a sailor, while good in other respects like shelter from the elements.

She should indeed be spiffing for Dylans' chum, I wonder if bilge keels could be added, if one researched the originals, got a designer in or more likely just applied common sense with a bit of engineering ?
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I have given an example above with photos of one with bilge keels - in addition to the main keel.
 
I wonder exactly how much experience performance sailing - sailing anywhere let alone racing - those who reckon the Fisher 25 a good sailer actually have, maybe they are artists who like a constant unchanging view of the coast...:)

As mentioned, wonderful for a fishing platform motorsailer.
 
Seajet said:
I wonder exactly how much experience performance sailing - sailing anywhere let alone racing - those who reckon the Fisher 25 a good sailer actually have, maybe they are artists who like a constant unchanging view of the coast...:)

As mentioned, wonderful for a fishing platform motorsailer.
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Well, I've had my Fisher 25 for a season and I'm absolutely delighted with it - sails surprisingly well, even goes to windward quite adequately.

Comparing it to a racing/performance yacht is to miss the point, as they are quite obviously different to each other.
Also, I don't think anyone has claimed that they are flying machines, only that they sail better than the critics would have you believe

A certain amount of performance may be compromised in order to attain other attributes, however all yacts are compromises and individual owners pick the one that suits them best - doesn't necessarily make one better than another
 
gavin400 said:
Well, I've had my Fisher 25 for a season and I'm absolutely delighted with it - sails surprisingly well, even goes to windward quite adequately.

Comparing it to a racing/performance yacht is to miss the point, as they are quite obviously different to each other.
Also, I don't think anyone has claimed that they are flying machines, only that they sail better than the critics would have you believe

A certain amount of performance may be compromised in order to attain other attributes, however all yacts are compromises and individual owners pick the one that suits them best - doesn't necessarily make one better than another
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He's not listening, he made his mind up with a brief glance as his A22 flew past, planning in a F2. There's a couple of F25's on the Deben, and a real beauty at Ramsholt moorings. She just looks right, a beautiful design.
 
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