Small Motorsailer

I am still keen on the swin ranger side of things - I have seen them sailing and they go better than they look

the Hardy's are deffo an option

I am going to try to talk him out of a fisher because it will leave too little for running costs from his budget and they fall over

if you want to make the most of the east coast then having a boat that falls over really cuts your cruising opportunities

he should really buy himself a nice centaur from a trustworthy source
 
Isn't the Freeward 25 the same hull? Walked past one in Titchmarsh marina yesterday & it looked low enough at the back to get in via dinghy & plenty of room to fish.
 
dylanwinter said:
I am going to try to talk him out of a fisher because it will leave too little for running costs from his budget and they fall over

if you want to make the most of the east coast then having a boat that falls over really cuts your cruising opportunities
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Why? (longtime East Coast sailor)
 
Point made? Maybe. It won't discourage erroneous suggestions though. Thinking of which...

...how about the Konsort Duo? Under 30ft, bilge keels, interior helm, room to fish from the cockpit (which is quite sheltered from ahead)...but will her looks scare the fish away? (Personally I like 'em, except for the horrid little athwartships dinette).

As for re-rigging a Tamar...I reckon even a brigantine rig would attract less comment than her wheel-shelter.
 
If he wants a small motor sailer why not look at a Heavenly twins. Nice and stable. Like all cats can be motored from inside with the right kit. Easy to move around. Maybe a Prout Sirocco - probably better for fishing
 
jwilson said:
For better sailing than most of the mini motorsailers look at a Seadog: a very good layout for 1/2, tough as old boots and similar money to a Fisher 25, which has bags of "character" but really needs the engine to get anywhere to windward. I know it's 30 ft, but an easy steady boat to sail and handle.
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+1
 
dylanwinter said:
I feel sorry for you depth challenged wallahs
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I know there are creeks and upper reaches I can't get to with a 4' 6" draught long keel but apart from a bit of ditch crawling (which is fun and we do it in the tender) the vast majority we can do - All the Deben/Orwell/Blackwater/Swale/Medway/Backwaters, sadly not all the Alde which we did up to Snape in our cat a few years ago. We can't reliably get past Wrabness on the Stour and there must be a few bits of the Crouch we won't be able to get to. As for Wells, it's too far away no matter our depth. A magical place but it's a 3 day sail for one place. Basically up to about 5'6" almost anywhere on the East Coast is there for us. But sadly not the best parts of Butley Creek, the most magical place on the east Coast and we discovered it thanks to Dylan; we used the tender and couldn't believe the magic as each turn of the creek brought a new view, favourite place. There's no need for twin keels to enjoy almost all the East Coast.
 
most gratifying

Lazy Kipper said:
I know there are creeks and upper reaches I can't get to with a 4' 6" draught long keel but apart from a bit of ditch crawling (which is fun and we do it in the tender) the vast majority we can do - All the Deben/Orwell/Blackwater/Swale/Medway/Backwaters, sadly not all the Alde which we did up to Snape in our cat a few years ago. We can't reliably get past Wrabness on the Stour and there must be a few bits of the Crouch we won't be able to get to. As for Wells, it's too far away no matter our depth. A magical place but it's a 3 day sail for one place. Basically up to about 5'6" almost anywhere on the East Coast is there for us. But sadly not the best parts of Butley Creek, the most magical place on the east Coast and we discovered it thanks to Dylan; we used the tender and couldn't believe the magic as each turn of the creek brought a new view, favourite place. There's no need for twin keels to enjoy almost all the East Coast.
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v pleased to have shown new places to old East Coast hands

and you are right - the Butley is a real gem

I would say that as a bird watcher then one of major delights is to head up a shallow creek and drop the hook or run aground and let the tide go.

To spend a night up Pyefleet is an entirely different experience from spending the night on the hook in the deep water anchorage at the entrance to Pyefleet

Then to spend a night on the boat and feel her slowly settle down onto the creek bed and feel the water ebb away is a great experience. If the tide comes back during the night then you can lie there and as the water arrives you hear the waves slapping her bottom, then the slapping transfers to the stern as the waves and ripples start to hit the back - then it all goes quiet for a few moments and eventually the boat starts to feel light and she lifts with the incoming tide then slides sideways with a sort of sighing noise - as much a sensation as a noise. Lieing on your back you can feel the boat respond to the water.

Wells is a bit special because it has sand harbours so you can just climb over the side and go for a walk. To take your nightcap whisky while walking around the boats aground in that perfect sand harbour - or even better well up Sluice creek is a real pleasure.

One morning I remember Jill and I sat in the cockpit having breakfast and we watched the tide return - first came the waders exploiting the invertebrates that emerged from the sand, then the fish came up, then the divers and swimming birds and finally came half a dozen seals after the fish. It was just toast and coffee but it tasted great.

Of course there are times when I do miss the bite of a deep keel and I will certainly miss the space I have been enjoying in Harmony. There have been days in Katie L and the slug when I have had to stay in port while bigger, tougher boats have been able to go out sailing. On the other hand there have been windy days when the big boats have stayed in port and I have been able to go upstream for a sail.

If you sail in a flat place with a 20 foot tide.... then it makes sense to have a boat that allows you to explore the fringes and get up among the salt marshes.

For me it is the ability to take your home sailing in these shallow places that is so marvelous - you can really sneak up on the birds in a small boat




here is a tip ... creeks birds are used to boats - it is people who make them nervous. They only recognise us as humans once they can see our head and shoulders - so if you stand in the companionway and only show the top of your head then they will all but ignore you


 
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You're right about all the exploring that's possible. It's the payoff for the other problems because big heavy displacement behemoths like the Lazy Kipper don't come with a pair of bilge keels. It's a shame because I like drying out, I rather like anchoring as well though, gently swinging to the tide.

In my youth we had a Hurley 22 and in our first year dad insisted on us having a two week holiday on board. I have never felt so cramped in my life. No personal space, no privacy, loo was a bucket in the cockpit, we cooked & washed up in the cockpit too and swam rather than washed. We smelled, quarrelled ate and farted, never more than a few feet from each other. We dried out each tide beautifully but my mum never went on board one of his boats again. I'm not certain but I don't think my two brothers did either. He sold the boat a year later. Drying out is magical some times, it just comes at too high a price for this East coaster with a family.

Toward the end of that holiday we were passed by a Westerly Centaur, pah says Dad, it's just a floating caravan. We all agreed, we knew the right mantra to speak. But I still remember the wistful look in my mother's eye and I wondered how it would be to have a shit on the boat without the neighbouring yachts at anchor watching you in the cockpit.
 
dylanwinter said:
I have yet to meet a regular leg user

they hog space when not ashore and are useless in the mud of the east coast

I understood that bilge keels were copmmon on fishers - perhaps I am wrong

D[/QUOT

legs do work if your mooring in the same spot but agree their in the way any other time. If he wont buy your boat d
why not go for a real sailer like the colvic 26,
adapt it re fitting a cockpit / wheelhouse and fitted with hydraulic steering he could have the best, bilge keels sturdy strong boat plenty of head room easy single handed their a very well made boat one has to be careful re the diy ones as some are not well fitted but a watson or other yard fitted one is worth looking at
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