slug mount snaps - the dullest web page in history

dylanwinter

dylanwinter

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www.keepturningleft.co.uk
I have just made what I sincerely hope is the dullest website page I shall ever make

its the engine mounts on the slug

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/blogs/the-engine-mounts/

it appears that we have a putative ad hoc engine mount consultative sub committee forming

so.... if anyone has any information or tips to pass on

urls of suppliers etc etc

i wonder if any PBO sailors could find a duller page than this

Dylan

I can tell you that sailing is much more interesting than this

here is a short film of the biggest cloud I have ever seen

it was filmed while sitting on a mooring in west mersea

its a real bunna

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/scuttlebutt/scuttlebutt-38-one-big-cloud/
 
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Compared with coupling the drive shafts to the gearbox of a Mini you have acres of space! The general condition looks reasonable without lots of corrosion, likely that they will come out without too much trouble. I wouldn't even think about hoisting the engine out but change the mounts in situ. It will be fiddly and you might need to invest in a UJ, extension and a socket(s) that fits the bolts.
 
vyv_cox said:
Compared with coupling the drive shafts to the gearbox of a Mini you have acres of space! The general condition looks reasonable without lots of corrosion, likely that they will come out without too much trouble. I wouldn't even think about hoisting the engine out but change the mounts in situ. It will be fiddly and you might need to invest in a UJ, extension and a socket(s) that fits the bolts.
Click to expand...

+1

I'd definitely by trying to change them in situ
 
.

These are just the same mountings as used on my MG 25 - and as you said, not at all like the ones I PM'd you about.

Take courage - they can be replaced one at a time. As others have said you may need to obtain/make up some dedicated spannerworks...... but you've nothing to lose by attempting it yourself, except possibly a case of "bilge-back" from contorting your unaccustomed body!

When you are successful you can enjoy the warm self satisfied glow of saving shedloads of dosh and the gaining of detailed knowledge and experience. Which, of course, you'll never need to call upon again.....
 
dylanwinter said:
I have just made what I sincerely hope is the dullest website page I shall ever make

its the engine mounts on the slug

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/blogs/the-engine-mounts/

it appears that we have a putative ad hoc engine mount consultative sub committee forming

so.... if anyone has any information or tips to pass on

urls of suppliers etc etc

i wonder if any PBO sailors could find a duller page than this

Dylan

I can tell you that sailing is much more interesting than this

here is a short film of the biggest cloud I have ever seen

it was filmed while sitting on a mooring in west mersea

its a real bunna

http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/scuttlebutt/scuttlebutt-38-one-big-cloud/
Click to expand...
Dylan
the Vetus K25V mounts should do for the back ones http://viewer.zmags.com/publication/dde28f6a#/dde28f6a/36
You need to do the calculations on the top left hand of the page, also need to measure the distance between the mounting bolts to the bed. You can adjust the holes to suit. These can be done in situ, the front ones are basically "cotton reel" mounts from what I can see, Robush sell all sorts of sizes of these. http://www.robush.co.uk/onlineshop/list_sscat.cfm
You need to post sizes of the studs and thickness and diameter of the rubber.
I agree with the others, can be done without removing the engine.
Stu
 
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I like sailing and try to avoid fixing.. however

concentrik said:
These are just the same mountings as used on my MG 25 - and as you said, not at all like the ones I PM'd you about.

Take courage - they can be replaced one at a time. As others have said you may need to obtain/make up some dedicated spannerworks...... but you've nothing to lose by attempting it yourself, except possibly a case of "bilge-back" from contorting your unaccustomed body!

When you are successful you can enjoy the warm self satisfied glow of saving shedloads of dosh and the gaining of detailed knowledge and experience. Which, of course, you'll never need to call upon again.....
Click to expand...



I fear its one of those jobs you hope you never have to do again.

I have had an email from some-one who has already done the job on a Mirror Offshore

so here it is in the public domaine should anyone ever want instructions on how to do it and need to search in the future

this from a wonderful man called Peter Turner - never met him but he watches my films



Dylan - replacing the engine mounts on an MD1 in situ in a Mirror Offshore is not that bad a job - you don't need to take the engine out, and can get a small bottle jack down in the narrow bilge under the engine to gently take the weight, having first removed the prop shaft coupling and slid it and the prop shaft back a bit.

Hardest part is getting the old engine mounting bolts undone, and whilst for the rear mounts you've got to hang upside down like a monkey with your head through the hatch in the cockpit floor, where there's a will there's a way, and you'll find you can reach the rear mounts with a bit of perseverance.
The front ones are easy to get at from the cabin, although for the starboard one you'll probably need to take the Dynastart off first.

I would definitely keep the MD1 - its a great engine, delivers the right sort of power, low down in the water, is excellent ballast in the right place, and hardly uses any fuel. An outboard hung on a bracket on the transom will wobble about, the prop will be out of the water half the time, the weight is in the wrong place, and it will gobble up (volatile) fuel compared to the MD1.

Just bite the bullet and get on with it yourself - after all, it doesn't have to be done all in one hit, and you could pick up a dead cheap secondhand outboard to use in the meantime (about 4 or 5 HP longshaft would be OK, but you want it to have gears). Remember to pull the prop shaft forwards and either couple it up once the jack is under the engine, or clamp the shaft immediately in front of the stern tube greaser with a large pair of mole grips (or a couple of Jubilee clips) - otherwise the shaft could pull out of the back of the boat, or at the very least foul (and possibly
jam) the rudder.

I found the following firm very helpful when I renewed my engine mounting rubbers (with the engine still in the boat - another Mirror Offshore), and they were also a pretty reassonable price (there are various hardnesses of rubber - from memory I went for something in the middle of the range, as I didn't want them to compress too much under the weight of the engine):
G.M.T. Rubber-Metal-Technic Ltd., The Sidings, Station Road, Guiseley, West Yorks Tel. 01943 870670, email sales@gmt.gb.com, website www.gmt.gb.com.

If the metal parts of the mountings (not the round plates on the ends of the rubbers - these will be stuck to the new rubber mountings/buffers) are knackered, any marine or agricultural engineer should be able to weld them up or make new ones.

When you stick the new rubbers in, you'll probably need to play around with some thin washer shims to get the engine to prop shaft alignment right, but you can easily check this by measuring the gaps between the drive coupling plates at 90 degree intervals (i.e. rotate the shaft a quarter of a turn and check the gap at the top each time).

Just remember that the Beast has actually been a faithful friend - it isn't his fault that the gearbox linkage broke, or indeed that his mountings were neglected over the years and have now failed - he just needs a new pair of boots and he'll be away again.

Regards


Peter


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

When you jack up the engine, do one end at a time (start with the rear, which is the hardest to do), and when these are done slide the jack forward and do the front. I wouldn't advise jacking up the whole engine centrally and removing all of the mountings and then using the boat, as the engine will probably fall off the jack.

The bolts holding the plates which "capture" the mounting rubbers will probably have circular heads with a hexagon recess - if so, they'll need to be carefully cleaned out, and then use a 3/8" Allen key (9mm is too small, and 10mm too big) for the front ones, and probably 8mm for the rear ones, if they are the same as mine, with a bit of tube over the end of the Allen key to give more leverage.

If only one mounting has gone, and the others look OK, you could as a temporary measure cut a thin wedge and bang it in and secure it with wire, although it will almost certainly keep working its way out again.



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Dylan - the front and rear mounts look the same as mine, except that you're in luck in that in each case you've got a fairly meaty hex headed bolt to work on rather than the set screws with recessed Allen key hex's (for the rear mountings, you have to remove the bent mounting plate that the rubbers bolt through, as unfortunately the nuts on the bottom of the studs for the rubbers aren't captive; once undone, put the new rubbers on and tighten up the bottom nuts before re-installing the bent plates).
 
Just seen your video in the woods reading out Robin's emails. Sounds like the vast majority of the cost is his labour in shifting the engine about.

As far as I can see, it's crazy for anyone without pots of money to throw about to pay an engineer to do that. It's hardly skilled work. I know that as I'm hardly skilled and I lifted the engine right out of KS and back in again. A 2GM20 is a tight fit in a Cornish Yawl, being twice the engine the boat was built with, so the slug can hardly be much tighter.

Get the parts (including any bracketry welded up by an agricultural merchant or backstreet garage, if no longer manufactured and the old ones knackered) and do the donkeywork yourself. If you were in Southampton I'd offer to come and help; maybe there's a similarly-disposed forumite or KTLer over there? Maybe pay for an hour of the expert's time at the end to help re-align the shaft and check you've not missed anything.

No need to be spending thousands to replace a bit of rubber.

Pete

EDIT: We had to do some unexpected work on KS's gearbox last weekend, through a similar cockpit-sole hatch to the slug's, and invented a useful device to make working that way more comfortable if you're interested.
 
Stoaty said:
Consider not even trying. I would use a nut splitter and then fit new nuts.
Click to expand...

Well, the bolts will come with the rubber doughnuts anyway won't they? TBH, try them first, they may well come easily if there has been plenty of oil & fuel around over the years - but yeah, replace them anyway & a splitter could easily be the best option on at least some of them.
 
Chinese suitcase genny and Wilkinson's angle grinder did mine. What did I do before?

(At my feet under the saloon table as I type anchored in Wainfleet Road waiting to get back into the river at Gibraltar Point)

Motored some hours today with nothing dropping off so assume new mounts and self alignment (engine, not me) successful!

Nick
 
making a start

NickRobinson said:
Chinese suitcase genny and Wilkinson's angle grinder did mine. What did I do before?

(At my feet under the saloon table as I type anchored in Wainfleet Road waiting to get back into the river at Gibraltar Point)

Motored some hours today with nothing dropping off so assume new mounts and self alignment (engine, not me) successful!

Nick
Click to expand...

I am going to the slug sunday night and will spend monday making my first assault on the engine mounts

I have a friend (from the web - not met him yet) coming on friday with a boot full of tools - how good is that

but I wuld really like to get the mounts off so that by Friday we can have the replacements ready

- but right now I have no idea about serial numbers - unless anyone can identify them from the snaps

they are metalistic mounts - beyond that I know nothing

D
 
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Back mounts look ok to replace with fairly standard mounts.
For the front why not take the steel mount off the engine and have a top welded on with a hole in it, then you could used a standard mount and it would also give you easy adjustment to line up the engine with the shaft.
 
solution

bendyone said:
Back mounts look ok to replace with fairly standard mounts.
For the front why not take the steel mount off the engine and have a top welded on with a hole in it, then you could used a standard mount and it would also give you easy adjustment to line up the engine with the shaft.
Click to expand...

it seems that you predict the future. I got three of the mounts off - left one on to stop the beast from going for a swim in the bilges

other three corners of beast supported on mooring stake, crow bar and short floor board

going to send the mounts to ktl sailor and grasstrack bike champion Alan Blewitt in the morning and he is going to make up some for me that he says will perform exactly the same and bring them to the boat to put them on - he says beast will be running by saturday night.

the kindness of strangers

how good is that?

Dylan
 
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dylanwinter said:
I got three of the mounts off - left one on to stop the beast from going for a swim in the bilges
Click to expand...

My experience of removing 4 bolts in any way remotely related to engines, is the first 3 undo easilly.

It's the 4th, and ALWAYS the one hardest to get at, that's rusted solid and either shears, or the spanner just rounds the nut.

I hope in your case I'm wrong. But it sounds like you are on top of it.

Best of luck.
 
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