Slightly unusual EU VAT (etc) query

Well, it seems he's on his way now, possibly on a bit of a wing and a prayer as far as documents (not customs specifically) are concerned. He's just phoned me to say he was stopped by the police in Frankfurt, who were not very happy that he had no registration documents for boat or trailer, but ultimately allowed him to continue.

Pete
 
Probably glad he is going elsewhere and hope the Italians will deal with him. Hope you won't have to learn about visiting prisoners in Croatian nick (if he ever gets that far)! Start baking the cake with the file in it.
 
There is good information on taking a boat into Croatia by road on the RYA site. I would be more concerned about complying with local regulations on using the boat than about potential VAT problems (because I don't think there are any). Would not be good if he trailed it all the way there and found he could not use it. The information sheet on the site lists all the things he needs to do and gives contact details of the Croatian authorities.

Why can he not take his boat to Croatia on a holiday use it, As its his and its why he bought the boat in the first place...
Surely a boat on a trailer is the same as a caravan?....
 
Why can he not take his boat to Croatia on a holiday use it, As its his and its why he bought the boat in the first place...
Surely a boat on a trailer is the same as a caravan?....

Tell that to a snotty official talking an incomprehensible language who is determined to interpret the rules his way! Add to it the fact that it's actually impossible to get our government to issue you with some sort of proof that vat is not due on your posessions and you have the recipe for the paranoia that abounds!
 
Why can he not take his boat to Croatia on a holiday use it, As its his and its why he bought the boat in the first place...
Because he is not going on holiday there but to work for a longer period, possibly longer than the normal tourist allowance of three months and thereby possibly qualifying as resident.

Surely a boat on a trailer is the same as a caravan?....
No, boats whether trailed or sailed into Croatia must conform to maritime entry requirements and thereby incur all the extra costs and documentation that implies - an annual vignette cost, as one example.

If you want an example of the ignorant confusion being caused by this subject with Croatian officials see a recent thread in the Liveaboard forum:
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?364028-Proof-of-VAT-status-in-Croatia&p=4240536#post4240536
 
A) I'm not going to Croatia.
B) My friend Chris, who is, is going for work, not as a tourist.
C) I'm a little hazy about how long he's staying, but it could easily be more than three months.

Apart from that, all good :p

In fact I think Tranona (and others) are probably right, and import issues are a red herring. However, he may well have problems with other paperwork that he hasn't even considered yet. Doubt there is any proof of VAT (bought second hand, no paperwork as far as I'm aware), I know it's not on SSR, and although he did a PB2 through the Cadets while we were at school, the odds of him digging up that certificate now are zero.

Because no paperwork is required in this country, I don't think it occurred to him that it may be elsewhere.

Pete
Pete
years ago, small Fletcher and me to France. Just when paranoia such as this started. Was told to register it on SSR. WTF is SSR?
Went anyway, les douanes got bent out of shape at Calais, big queue, waved on with warning, big prob if stopped again!
I wasnt and came back in two weeks time ok.
This situation is what SSR was invented for, a bit of meaningless paper from the point of view of GB but oh so important to johnny foreigner!
Stu
 
This situation is what SSR was invented for, a bit of meaningless paper from the point of view of GB but oh so important to johnny foreigner!

Yeah, bit late now though as he's on his way without one. I did suggest it, but I don't think he got the message that most countries expect boats to have paperwork.

Pete
 
I did Austria, Italy, Slovenia, Croatia at the weekend and regularly travel across the borders with my tender, outboard, windsurfer and piles of boat bits. There are no manned border crossings in Italy to Austria or Slovenia - the only people likely to show an interest are traffic cops, and then only if you stand out by speeding, defective car etc. The borders between Slovenia and Croatia are manned with customs officers and police as this is currently the border of the EU. However I have watched numerous power boats and camper vans get waved through in both directions without even a cursory check, just flash a passport. It's pretty relaxed and if he looks like a holiday maker then he'll probably get waved through. I've been stopped and asked to present documentation for my car twice, but this has been late at night with no other traffic around.

The Germans wanted to see the registration for the trailer because in Germany trailers are seperately registered with their own number plate and MOT - the cops just didn't understand that in the UK it's different.

He will definately have a problem if he tries to put the boat in the water in Croatia before 01.07.2013 (when they join the EU). He'll need to buy a vignette from the harbour master, which needs a registration document (SSR), passport etc. to obtain. He will also need insurance if the engine is more than 15kW but won't need a crew list if the boat has no sleeping accomodation.

The Croatian boat rules are here ...

http://www.mppi.hr/default.aspx?id=668

With this being the most important info ...

http://www.mppi.hr/userdocsimages/2005/041231-uredba-dolazak-boravak-engl.pdf

The licence disc/sticker is the part of the vignette attached to the boat.

Licence Disc/Sticker
Article 6
(1) The floating craft shall be marked, in a conspicuous place, by a licence disc/sticker.
(2) Floating craft smaller than 2.5 metres in length or having a total output of their propulsion machinery of less than 5 kW shall be exempted from the obligation of carrying the licence disc/sticker.
(3) Irrespective of their length, any floating craft driven by oars (e.g. kayaks, beach canoes, pedal boats) shall be exempted from the obligation of carrying the licence disc/sticker.
(4) Also exempted from the obligation of carrying the licence disc/sticker are the floating craft while being kept under custody in a port or at any other approved place in the Republic of Croatia.
(5) The licence disc/sticker shall be valid one year following the date of its issuance, providing that in one year period only one disc/sticker per floating craft can be issued.
(6) The licence disc/sticker shall be issued by the Harbourmaster's Office or its branch office.
(7) On the occasion of issuing the licence disc/sticker, the Harbourmaster's Office shall ascertain as to whether the floating craft and its crew meet the navigational requirements of the Republic of Croatia.
(8) In the case of the floating craft referred to in Article 7 of the Ordinance herein, an appropriate coupon/counterfoil of the licence disc/sticker shall be affixed to the passenger list specified in Article 7 of this Ordinance.
(9) The form of the licence disc/sticker is given in the Appendix 1, which constitutes the integral part of the Ordinance herein.

Paperwork ...

Article 8
For the purpose of inspection, any floating craft under way in the Republic of Croatia shall carry the following original documents:
- licence disc/sticker (Vignette)
- duly endorsed Passenger List for the persons carried on board (this provision shall refer to the floating craft specified in Article 7 of this Ordinance) (Not needed if no beds on board)
- certificate of seaworthiness (CE marking or LLoyds certificate)
- evidence that the person in command of the floating craft holds the required certificate of competency to operate the craft in accordance with the regulations of the country whose flag the craft is flying or in accordance with the relevant regulations of the Republic of Croatia (see list here http://www.mppi.hr/UserDocsImages/NAUTIC TABL-ENG MoU 14-6_13.pdf)
- prove that the floating craft has been insured against damage caused to third persons (if engine over 15 kW)
- submit the proof of ownership or provide evidence as to the person assigned to use the floating craft (SSR)

If he doesn't comply then he could try using the boat, but if caught it will be impounded. If it sits on its trailer then there should be no issue.

A work colleague of mine took a 3,45m inflatable with a 6ps outboard to Croatia and was not allowed to launch it without a vignette. Any harbour, marina, etc. with launching facilities will want to see the paperwork because they use the length on the vignette to determine what to charge.

I don't know fully what the rules will be after 01.07.2013
 
If he doesn't comply then he could try using the boat, but if caught it will be impounded.

I think that's his basic plan, though more due to ignorance of the requirements (or even that there may be any requirements) than because he's looked at what's needed and consciously decided not to bother. Before he left I think he really was failing to understand that not everywhere is as free-and-easy as the UK. His encounter with the German police may have finally got the message through, but of course it's now too late to sort out many of the items.

Any harbour, marina, etc. with launching facilities will want to see the paperwork because they use the length on the vignette to determine what to charge.

I believe he's planning to launch over the beach, near where he will be working. Not sure whether the plan is to then leave the boat afloat for the duration or launch and retrieve each time - no idea if there's anything to tie up to, but he does have my old anchor off Ariam which is absurdly oversized for his boat and could perhaps set up a temporary mooring, coming back ashore in the event of bad weather.

I don't know fully what the rules will be after 01.07.2013

It's an interesting question. He's there till September, so it would be no hardship to leave the boat ashore for a week or two - indeed it's likely he'll be too busy working the initial setup to be able to use the boat at first anyway. But it seems unlikely to me that all the apparatus described in your post will suddenly disappear at the moment of accession.

Pete
 
I'd be very nervous out in a boat without a vignette. Any official with half a brain will have him by the short 'n' curlies - then he's at their mercy. I do see police boats around regularly but can't say what they're up to, or if they check vignettes. I've never been 'inspected' but a cursory glance shows the vignette is up to date.

A SSR can be bought online for £25 and posted to a UK address. I assume he has insurance and some form of qualifications. The harbour master can do a quick test if he has no qualifications.

Operating a boat contrary to local legislation is not something I'd want to do in a foreign country. Hope he sorts it out.
 
Operating a boat contrary to local legislation is not something I'd want to do in a foreign country.

Well, quite, nor me.

Newsflash, as I was writing this post: He's just phoned to say he's on the hard shoulder in Austria. One of the wheels has fallen off the trailer. Dunno where he goes from here...

Pete
 
I'd be very nervous out in a boat without a vignette. Any official with half a brain will have him by the short 'n' curlies - then he's at their mercy. I do see police boats around regularly but can't say what they're up to, or if they check vignettes. I've never been 'inspected' but a cursory glance shows the vignette is up to date.

A SSR can be bought online for £25 and posted to a UK address. I assume he has insurance and some form of qualifications. The harbour master can do a quick test if he has no qualifications.

Operating a boat contrary to local legislation is not something I'd want to do in a foreign country. Hope he sorts it out.
I agree. I personally would not contravene any Croatian regulation. Perhaps it is a reaction from sailing there since the years when it was called Yugoslavia. It cannot help but leave an indelible impression, even many years later, when a military contingent boards your boat at anchor in a deserted bay of Mljet at midnight, led by an officer with drawn pistol to inspect then eventually order us to leave, despite all our papers being in order and the area not a military one, which at the time he falsely claimed it was. My wife was terrified. Have all the officious thugs then in control been fired? I doubt it.
 
An update on this saga, having spoken to Chris last night.

The boat is still in Austria. His breakdown cover arranged for the boat and trailer to be taken to a garage, and him to be put up in a hotel overnight (he was full of praise for their service). The garage couldn't immediately do anything last week, so he left the boat with them and went on to Croatia on his own. The idea was that the garage would repair it, and his friend who was driving out a few days later would collect it on his way past and bring it to the site in Croatia.

Last night I learned that the Austrian garage say it would be illegal to repair the trailer in Austria, because it doesn't comply with their regulations. So the latest plan is to get it taken on a low loader to Croatia (this apparently still paid for by the top-of-the-range breakdown cover), somehow get the boat into the water (possibly with the aid of plant or vehicles on site; I'm not sure exactly what they have to play with) and then try to either repair or replace the trailer which will be easier without a ton of boat on it.

I emailed him a summary of BaggyWrinkle's informative post on the Croatian paperwork, so at least he's aware of what he should be doing.

Pete
 
An update on this saga, having spoken to Chris last night.

The boat is still in Austria. His breakdown cover arranged for the boat and trailer to be taken to a garage, and him to be put up in a hotel overnight (he was full of praise for their service). The garage couldn't immediately do anything last week, so he left the boat with them and went on to Croatia on his own. The idea was that the garage would repair it, and his friend who was driving out a few days later would collect it on his way past and bring it to the site in Croatia.

Last night I learned that the Austrian garage say it would be illegal to repair the trailer in Austria, because it doesn't comply with their regulations. So the latest plan is to get it taken on a low loader to Croatia (this apparently still paid for by the top-of-the-range breakdown cover), somehow get the boat into the water (possibly with the aid of plant or vehicles on site; I'm not sure exactly what they have to play with) and then try to either repair or replace the trailer which will be easier without a ton of boat on it.

I emailed him a summary of BaggyWrinkle's informative post on the Croatian paperwork, so at least he's aware of what he should be doing.

Pete

Sounds like a bit of a saga. Just to muddy the waters further, Croatia joined the EU yesterday, so I don't know if the vignette process is still running or not. I'll find out when I visit in August.

I believe he'll still need the relevent paperwork for ownership, competence, insurance etc. If I were him, I'd get along to the closest harbourmasters office and clarify what's needed before putting the boat in the water.

Croatia hasn't joined the Shengen area yet so passports are still needed, and they still have the Kuna (although Euros are already accepted in most places.). All that has changed from a tourists perspective is that all the customs formalities have been scrapped - so no limits on import/export of alcohol/tobacco (except it must be for personal consumption), no more duty free shopping, EHIC now covers Croatia. He shouldn't need to worry about VAT or import as his boat wasn't in Croatia on 01.07.2013.
 
Well, all praise to his breakdown company. They phoned him today to discuss progress. Apparently it would cost £2500 to truck it to Croatia, or £5000 to truck it back home. They are willing to pay for either of these, at his option, but have suggested that instead he buy a replacement trailer and drive back to Austria to collect it on that. They will pay for the new trailer, and mileage for the journey, up to a budget of the £2500 it would cost to dump it outside his apartment on a broken trailer instead.

How's that for service?

I don't know which company this is, but I'll ask next time I speak to him.

Pete
 
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