Sleeping at anchor - is a mid cabin a must ?

[prinex]

I had a look at a Sq 58 and is a beatiful boat but the owner cabin is in the bow.

In my 41 foot Primatist you dont want to sleep in the boat at anchor at all - it sounds like a drum. Does this get better with larger sizes ? There is a sq55 (old model, owner cabin in the bow) for sale here, has anyone experience sleeping in the bow cabin at anchor ? Or the solution is a mid-cabin ?

I used to sleep in the bow cabin of the trawler but it was steel and round hull so it was almost totally silent...

 

[alandalus11]

Are you referring to the splashing of the waves on the hull or the noise of the anchor chain. A good snubber set up for the anchor and chain should give you a quieter night as well as make it easier on your cleats.

 

[Portofino]

Not essential.
Its usually flat dead calm in the summer .
I guess it depends on wether you are a light or heavy sleeper .Remember a guest could be in a bow cabin if you are in a mid .
Choose the boat on overall condition, the machinery , the day time use facilities, the intended cruise range / speed .Even engine room access is high up on my list .
Think again about a sq 58 with this point as the whole saloon floor has to come up with furniture removed first .
A walk in ER makes life aboard so much relaxing .
Also you are at the cross roads of opting out of Volvo Penta .Think your next step carefully .
A MAN , CAT , MTU boat is there for the taking in the 50-60 ftr range - on shafts that’s a given .
Nothing wrong with mid cabins per se , or prawn griddles on the fly bridge , But I would rather sacrifice this for a older better built , shaft drive ( if it’s used IPS to gain the mid cabin ) cheaper saving €100 K boat .
Think how many Marina berths night s away a slush fund of €100 K will buy ?

 

[LittleSister]

I've had no trouble at all sleeping in any of the boats I've owned - 16' 3", 17' 3", 22', 23', 27' (all sailing boats, none with owner's cabins) - so it is with some amazement and amusement I hear of the problems sleeping on boats vastly bigger, and costing more than the house I live in (where I also have no trouble sleeping!).

That said, getting a good night's sleep (at least most of the time) is essential to happy boating, so I hope you find a solution to your problem.

 

[prinex]

Sailboats have a round hull. The problem with motor boats is that typically have "steps" and the sound comes from the water slapping against the steps. In my boat this is so loud that even 5 cm ripples will give you a "slap!" concert at night.

I did not knew the sq58 has no decent engine access, this is also a big issue in my boat - to get to the engine I have to lift the cushions support, empty the garage, then lift another huge hatch.

@Portofino - have a look at this old glory SL57 - is this what you mean for cheaper boats ? Not sure how do you get to the engines there (I think there is a hatch on the sitting area in the back). And it has a mid-cabin...

Edit: Here at 3:15 the engine access is shown (the title of the video says 62 but this is 57), real door thru the crew cabin in the bow I mean its a hatch thru the sitting area in the back - still I'm sold because real door ! its a 62..

 

[Hurricane]

Over the last 13 years, I've had a boat with a large mid full beam master and I wouldn't have anything else.
It isn't anchor/chain noise that puts me off the forward cabin (that can easily be fixed with a snubber).
It is the "slap and tickle" that I call it (the waved lapping on the bow).
I disagree with Portofino - a mid cabin is definitely worth any extra - maybe he has never had one.
We have had both and, of course with a mid cabin, you also get both.

There is another hidden benefit.
Try and sleep in a forward cabin under way in a big sea - you will be on the bed - then on the ceiling - then on the floor which will lead to a really bad sea sick feeling.
Conversely, try the mid cabin whilst under way in a big sea - being low in the boat (much nearer the centre of gravity) the bed just twists and tilts.
Indeed, if you are feeling sea sick unwell, the mid cabin is a really good place to go.

 

[prinex]

It is the "slap and tickle" that I call it (the waved lapping on the bow).

yes exactly, on the trawler I used to rig up the anchor chain with a "hook" and a big rope - this way the upper part of the anchor will be slack and not "scratching" as the boat moves. The slapping was not a issue on the steel trawler ... now when the waves slap against the steps on the hull its a nightmare.

 

[Portofino]

Over the last 13 years, I've had a boat with a large mid full beam master and I wouldn't have anything else.
It isn't anchor/chain noise that puts me off the forward cabin (that can easily be fixed with a snubber).
It is the "slap and tickle" that I call it (the waved lapping on the bow).
I disagree with Portofino - a mid cabin is definitely worth any extra - maybe he has never had one.
We have had both and, of course with a mid cabin, you also get both.

There is another hidden benefit.
Try and sleep in a forward cabin under way in a big sea - you will be on the bed - then on the ceiling - then on the floor which will lead to a really bad sea sick feeling.
Conversely, try the mid cabin whilst under way in a big sea - being low in the boat (much nearer the centre of gravity) the bed just twists and tilts.
Indeed, if you are feeling sea sick unwell, the mid cabin is a really good place to go.

But I made a point a guest will use the bow , Or do you only just use the boat as couple ? Or some sort of kinky 4 some in the mid cabin - Arh Gotcha !

Some body has to use all that fwd fitted out cabin .1000 s do right now tonight in the med will in the fwd cabins inc crew on SY s .

For sleeping / napping on the go our guests just sleep on the rear sun pads in daytime running or sprawl out on cock pit seat during a long Med sumner day time .
Never known any one retire to cabin the Med summer during daylight for a kip while the boats munching away a miles @ 30 knots .

 

[Portofino]

Sailboats have a round hull. The problem with motor boats is that typically have "steps" and the sound comes from the water slapping against the steps. In my boat this is so loud that even 5 cm ripples will give you a "slap!" concert at night.

I did not knew the sq58 has no decent engine access, this is also a big issue in my boat - to get to the engine I have to lift the cushions support, empty the garage, then lift another huge hatch.

@Portofino - have a look at this old glory SL57 - is this what you mean for cheaper boats ? Not sure how do you get to the engines there (I think there is a hatch on the sitting area in the back). And it has a mid-cabin...

Edit: Here at 3:15 the engine access is shown (the title of the video says 62 but this is 57), real door thru the crew cabin in the bow I mean its a hatch thru the sitting area in the back - still I'm sold because real door ! its a 62..

Yes a great buy that SL 57 . Just get Garabini to check those exhausts .They look sooty on the pics and I do not like the AL wrapped coving up the insulation joins .Why do that , what’s leaking out ?

Buggermi also had a Akhir 19 in wood recently, looked nice @ less than 1/2 that price .

But even if the SL needs nothing major ( like new 4 x exhaust circa €20 K fitted with tax ) it still a better buy .
I think there is a door from the Lazere at the stern to walk into the ER as well as the hatch you can see .

The cost difference of piece of old falling to bits U.K. “ plastic fantastic “will buy a helluva lot of nights in the Hotel Splendido in Portofino and such like .

 

[BruceK]

Water slapping the bow used to also drive me nuts. So much so I wore ear plugs to mute the sound. I ran out of them one cruise and it's amazing how quickly the body adapts to completely shut out the sound. Now I have to make a conscious effort to hear the slapping sounds. Dont let it get in your head like an earworm and you'll be fine

 

[prinex]

Yes a great buy that SL 57 . Just get Garabini to check those exhausts .They look sooty on the pics and I do not like the AL wrapped coving up the insulation joins .Why do that , what’s leaking out ?

Buggermi also had a Akhir 19 in wood recently, looked nice @ less than 1/2 that price .

But even if the SL needs nothing major ( like new 4 x exhaust circa €20 K fitted with tax ) it still a better buy .
I think there is a door from the Lazere at the stern to walk into the ER as well as the hatch you can see .

The cost difference of piece of old falling to bits U.K. “ plastic fantastic “will buy a helluva lot of nights in the Hotel Splendido in Portofino and such like .

I found another one which is more expensive but he has the fuel consumption listed (Link) - 50 liters at 10Kn would be excellent if true, even 160lt at 18kn would be good.

 

[Portofino]

I found another one which is more expensive but he has the fuel consumption listed (Link) - 50 liters at 10Kn would be excellent if true, even 160lt at 18kn would be good.

Likely to be true @ 10 knots , my 13 L rs do at displacement speed 9 knots , 870 rpm about 16 L per side so 36 in all .
Thats just pushing it a bit . Equates to 55 % load . So this longer and bigger hull , Yep about 25 L sounds right .

I could do 14 L a bit lower say 8 knots .
600 rpm tick over is 7.5 knots does not feel right sailing at tick over .

 

[Assassin]

Water slapping the bow used to also drive me nuts. So much so I wore ear plugs to mute the sound. I ran out of them one cruise and it's amazing how quickly the body adapts to completely shut out the sound. Now I have to make a conscious effort to hear the slapping sounds. Dont let it get in your head like an earworm and you'll be fine
[/QUOTE

]I thought it was copious amounts of Merlot which blotted out the noise.

 

[jrudge]

Think again about a sq 58 with this point as the whole saloon floor has to come up with furniture removed first .

Porto

I really don’t know where you get this rubbish from.

The furniture does not come out.

The stbd side panel removes in 2 minutes ( 4 screws) if you want better access.

The rest of them come out with about 10 min work. I have only done it once and that was to remove / test / replace injectors.

Back on topic I am on a s58 now. a mid cabin is preferable, however other than tonight in Ciutadella in menorca and about 5 fishing boats have just left port I don’t notice the noise. The rougher the water you anchor in ( or the more ignorant the fishing boats are ) the more noise.

if you can get a mid cabin do so but also bear in mind they have very poor ventilation ( I had a squadron 65 with mid cabin ) so the air con will be running when you wake up at 3am very hot.
I have a gyro so the air con runs all night anyway now - which is a double benefit !

 

[Portofino]

Porto

I really don’t know where you get this rubbish from.

The furniture does not come out.

The stbd side panel removes in 2 minutes ( 4 screws) if you want better access.

The rest of them come out with about 10 min work. I have only done it once and that was to remove / test / replace injectors.

Back on topic I am on a s58 now. a mid cabin is preferable, however other than tonight in Ciutadella in menorca and about 5 fishing boats have just left port I don’t notice the noise. The rougher the water you anchor in ( or the more ignorant the fishing boats are ) the more noise.

if you can get a mid cabin do so but also bear in mind they have very poor ventilation ( I had a squadron 65 with mid cabin ) so the air con will be running when you wake up at 3am very hot.
I have a gyro so the air con runs all night anyway now - which is a double benefit !

Still a fagg having to do that as opposed to just climbing down ladder + hatch (s) esp at sea or anchor .
The OPs flagged up easier ER access as he’s mentioned problems with his current boat , he has put it high up on his wish list if you read his other recent thread 40 to 60 ft .
So you can’t climb over from the middle to access stuff on the outboard side

 

[Portofino]

Porto

I really don’t know where you get this rubbish from.

The furniture does not come out.

The stbd side panel removes in 2 minutes ( 4 screws) if you want better access.

The rest of them come out with about 10 min work. I have only done it once and that was to remove / test / replace injectors.

Back on topic I am on a s58 now. a mid cabin is preferable, however other than tonight in Ciutadella in menorca and about 5 fishing boats have just left port I don’t notice the noise. The rougher the water you anchor in ( or the more ignorant the fishing boats are ) the more noise.

if you can get a mid cabin do so but also bear in mind they have very poor ventilation ( I had a squadron 65 with mid cabin ) so the air con will be running when you wake up at 3am very hot.
I have a gyro so the air con runs all night anyway now - which is a double benefit !

The “ rubbish “ came this thread on this forum started by you if I am not mistaken?

Squadron 58 - 2004 - Saloon Floor Removal

Now YOU have raised the Spector of VP D12 s , there’s a guy on my jetty with D 12 s who's boat has not moved for 5 weeks with injector trouble .
Smoke , heavy smoke and a distinctive tapping / rattle / knocking as it’s missing one cylinder .They are throwing parts on it still unresolved.

Given a blank canvas why hop into Volvo Penta land ? Imho as I said the machinery side , it’s marque and access should figure higher up the wish list than the mid cabin .Every ones order on the wish list will vary of course we are not clones .Mid cabin ( this thread ) is on there but exactly how high up , what does it trump in this boat size range ?
A fellow forumite has witnessed a brief start up btw - it interrupted our conversation.
The poor guy( owner ) is pretty frustrated

 

[Hurricane]

What has all this got to do with the OP's original question?
IMHO, the Squadron 58 is a fine boat.
Nothing in this world is perfect.
You always have to take the benefits along with the disadvantages.
There are MANY good points about the Squadron 58.
The lack of a mid cabin is one of its disadvantages but it is a great boat to actually live on.
By not having a mid cabin, it has a great utility/extra cabin in the middle of the boat.
I keep on about it but being able to keep your laundry in a dedicated place next to a washing machine makes life easier.
Maybe some people on here don't wash their clothes!!

 

[Portofino]

What has all this got to do with the OP's original question?
IMHO, the Squadron 58 is a fine boat.
Nothing in this world is perfect.
You always have to take the benefits along with the disadvantages.
There are MANY good points about the Squadron 58.
The lack of a mid cabin is one of its disadvantages but it is a great boat to actually live on.
By not having a mid cabin, it has a great utility/extra cabin in the middle of the boat.
I keep on about it but being able to keep your laundry in a dedicated place next to a washing machine makes life easier.
Maybe some people on here don't wash their clothes!!

Links in with what he said here me thinks ?
Post #1 second para .
Post #8 last para .

Maintenance costs going from 40 to 60 foot

 

[prinex]

Well I did not really believed it until I could read it ... remove carpet ... unscrew the furniture ... to get access to the engine.

I agree boats are not perfect, on my prio list very high is "open door and walk into engine room to check things", i always did this on the trawler on a daily basis, it gave me a sense of security to visually check things, I spotted many problems as they just developed (diesel fuel line leaking, underpressure in the fuel pump, bilge pump switch detached from the pump etc) which could have turned in a huge problem.

I also had a small workbench with tools etc and it was nice to be able to work without worrying about dirt / oil etc.

So without taking anything away from sq58 ... I do would place engine access higher then mid / bow cabin (the sq58 has crappy engine access and bow cabin but is still a good boat - great fly, engines mid-ship and so on).

 

[Hurricane]

Don't be silly.
You don't have to lift the floor to access the engine room on a Squadron 58.
Have a look at this video from our very own Nick (Aquaholic).
He shows the access to the engines at 15min 20 secs in.

But if you run the video, why not have a look at the whole boat.
This video reminded me of the internal stairs.
Oh - don't get me going on internal stairs.
I can't believe how the industry has progressed - dumping the internal stairs to the FB.
For us, they are a vital safety factor whilst under way.
You have to have owned (and used) a boat with internal stairs to understand why they should still be fitted.