davidhand
New member
SWIMBO (she's a yank) was asking me about this and I had not heard of it before. Does anyone have any more details of what actually occured? Thanks.
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Slapdown sands
- Thread starter Badger
- Start date
Badger
Member
Re: Slapton sands incident
This is what I found on the web ........
In preparing for the Normandy Invasion, the United States Army conducted various training exercises at Slapton Sands in Start Bay and in the nearby Tor Bay, beginning on December 15, 1943. Slapton was an unspoiled beach of coarse gravel, fronting a shallow lagoon that was backed by bluffs that resembled Omaha Beach. After the people in the nearby village were evacuated, it was an almost perfect place to simulate the Normandy landings. The training was long and thorough. The culmination of the joint training program was a pair of full scale rehearsals in late April and early May.
TIGER was the code name of the training exercise for the Utah Beach assault forces under Admiral Don P. Moon. It was held from April 22-30, 1944. The troops and equipment embarked on the same ships and for the most part from the same ports from which they would later leave for France. Six of the days in the exercise were taken up by the marshaling of the troops and the embarkation of the landing craft. During the night of April 26-27, 1944, the main force proceeded through Lyme Bay with mine craft sweeping ahead of them as if crossing the channel. Since German E-boats, which were high-speed torpedo boats capable of operating at speeds of 34-36 knots, sometimes patrolled the channel at night, the British Commander in Chief, Plymouth, who was responsible for protecting the rehearsal, threw patrols across the mouth of Lyme Bay. These patrols consisted of two destroyers, three motor torpedo boats and two motor gunboats. Another motor torpedo patrol was sent to watch Cherbourg, the main ports where the German E-boats were based. Following the "bombardment" on Slapton Sands, the exercise "landings" were begun during the morning of April 27, and the unloading continued during the day and the next when a follow up convoy was expected.
This Convoy T-4 consisted of two sections from two different ports. The Plymouth section, LST Group 32, was composed of USS LST-515, USS LST-496, USS LST-511, USS LST-531, and USS LST-58, which was towing two pontoon causeways. The Brixham section consisted of USS LST-499, USS LST-289, and USS LST-507. The convoy joined with HMS Azalea as escort and proceeded at six knots in one column with the LSTs in the same order as listed above. When the convoy was maneuvering in Lyme Bay in the early hours of April 28, they were attacked by nine German E-boats out of Cherbourg that had evaded the Allied patrols. No warning of the presence of enemy boats had been received until LST-507 was torpedoed at 0204. The ship burst into flames, and survivors abandoned ship. Several minutes later LST-531 was torpedoed and sank in six minutes. LST-289, which opened fire at E-boats, was also torpedoed but was able to reach port. The other LSTs plus two British destroyers fired at the E-boats, which used smoke and high speed to escape. This brief action resulted in 198 Navy dead and missing and 441 Army dead and missing according to the naval action reports. Later Army reports gave 551 as the total number of dead and missing soldiers. The final training exercise FABIUS took place between May 3-8, without any enemy attacks.
To keep the Germans from possibly learning about the impending Normandy Invasion, casualty information on Exercise TIGER was not released until after the invasion. On August 5, 1944, Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force released statistics on the casualties associated with the Normandy Invasion, which included information about the German E-Boat attack on April 28. This information was also published in the August 7 issue of The Stars and Stripes, the daily newspaper of the U. S. Armed Forces in the European Theater. The Textual Reference Branch, National Archives and Records Administration, 8601 Adelphi Road, College Park, MD 20740-6001, holds the originals of both these sources. Over the years, details on the training exercises and the resulting losses have appeared in such published sources as Samuel Eliot Morison's The Invasion of France and Germany, 1944-1945 (1957), volume XI of his 15-volume History of United States Naval Operations in World War II, and Roland Rupenthal's Logistical Support of the Armies (1953) and Gordon Harrison's Cross-Channel Attack, which are both part of the multi-volume series United States Army in World War
Thus, since August 1944, information about the training exercise also commonly called Operation TIGER has been available to the public. The naval records relating to Operation TIGER, which are declassified, were transferred to the Modern Military Records Branch, Naitonal Archives and Records Admiistration, 8601 Adelphi Road, College Park, MD 20740-6001. Before transfer, the Operational Archives Branch had placed all the naval action reports from this exercise on microfilm reel, NRS-601. To order a duplicate film for the cost indicated on the fee schedule, please complete the duplication order form and send it with a check or money order made payable to the Department of the Navy, to the Operational Archives Branch, Naval Historical Center, 805 Kidder Breese SE, Washington Navy Yard, DC 20374-5060.
The Exercise Tiger Association, National Commemorative Foundation, a non-profit organization recognized by the Department of Defense and Congress, promotes education on the events of Exercise Tiger, and holds annual ceremonies honoring the participants in Exercise Tiger. The address of the Exercise Tiger Association is P.O. Box 1050 Beach Haven, NJ 08008.
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This is what I found on the web ........
In preparing for the Normandy Invasion, the United States Army conducted various training exercises at Slapton Sands in Start Bay and in the nearby Tor Bay, beginning on December 15, 1943. Slapton was an unspoiled beach of coarse gravel, fronting a shallow lagoon that was backed by bluffs that resembled Omaha Beach. After the people in the nearby village were evacuated, it was an almost perfect place to simulate the Normandy landings. The training was long and thorough. The culmination of the joint training program was a pair of full scale rehearsals in late April and early May.
TIGER was the code name of the training exercise for the Utah Beach assault forces under Admiral Don P. Moon. It was held from April 22-30, 1944. The troops and equipment embarked on the same ships and for the most part from the same ports from which they would later leave for France. Six of the days in the exercise were taken up by the marshaling of the troops and the embarkation of the landing craft. During the night of April 26-27, 1944, the main force proceeded through Lyme Bay with mine craft sweeping ahead of them as if crossing the channel. Since German E-boats, which were high-speed torpedo boats capable of operating at speeds of 34-36 knots, sometimes patrolled the channel at night, the British Commander in Chief, Plymouth, who was responsible for protecting the rehearsal, threw patrols across the mouth of Lyme Bay. These patrols consisted of two destroyers, three motor torpedo boats and two motor gunboats. Another motor torpedo patrol was sent to watch Cherbourg, the main ports where the German E-boats were based. Following the "bombardment" on Slapton Sands, the exercise "landings" were begun during the morning of April 27, and the unloading continued during the day and the next when a follow up convoy was expected.
This Convoy T-4 consisted of two sections from two different ports. The Plymouth section, LST Group 32, was composed of USS LST-515, USS LST-496, USS LST-511, USS LST-531, and USS LST-58, which was towing two pontoon causeways. The Brixham section consisted of USS LST-499, USS LST-289, and USS LST-507. The convoy joined with HMS Azalea as escort and proceeded at six knots in one column with the LSTs in the same order as listed above. When the convoy was maneuvering in Lyme Bay in the early hours of April 28, they were attacked by nine German E-boats out of Cherbourg that had evaded the Allied patrols. No warning of the presence of enemy boats had been received until LST-507 was torpedoed at 0204. The ship burst into flames, and survivors abandoned ship. Several minutes later LST-531 was torpedoed and sank in six minutes. LST-289, which opened fire at E-boats, was also torpedoed but was able to reach port. The other LSTs plus two British destroyers fired at the E-boats, which used smoke and high speed to escape. This brief action resulted in 198 Navy dead and missing and 441 Army dead and missing according to the naval action reports. Later Army reports gave 551 as the total number of dead and missing soldiers. The final training exercise FABIUS took place between May 3-8, without any enemy attacks.
To keep the Germans from possibly learning about the impending Normandy Invasion, casualty information on Exercise TIGER was not released until after the invasion. On August 5, 1944, Supreme Headquarters, Allied Expeditionary Force released statistics on the casualties associated with the Normandy Invasion, which included information about the German E-Boat attack on April 28. This information was also published in the August 7 issue of The Stars and Stripes, the daily newspaper of the U. S. Armed Forces in the European Theater. The Textual Reference Branch, National Archives and Records Administration, 8601 Adelphi Road, College Park, MD 20740-6001, holds the originals of both these sources. Over the years, details on the training exercises and the resulting losses have appeared in such published sources as Samuel Eliot Morison's The Invasion of France and Germany, 1944-1945 (1957), volume XI of his 15-volume History of United States Naval Operations in World War II, and Roland Rupenthal's Logistical Support of the Armies (1953) and Gordon Harrison's Cross-Channel Attack, which are both part of the multi-volume series United States Army in World War
Thus, since August 1944, information about the training exercise also commonly called Operation TIGER has been available to the public. The naval records relating to Operation TIGER, which are declassified, were transferred to the Modern Military Records Branch, Naitonal Archives and Records Admiistration, 8601 Adelphi Road, College Park, MD 20740-6001. Before transfer, the Operational Archives Branch had placed all the naval action reports from this exercise on microfilm reel, NRS-601. To order a duplicate film for the cost indicated on the fee schedule, please complete the duplication order form and send it with a check or money order made payable to the Department of the Navy, to the Operational Archives Branch, Naval Historical Center, 805 Kidder Breese SE, Washington Navy Yard, DC 20374-5060.
The Exercise Tiger Association, National Commemorative Foundation, a non-profit organization recognized by the Department of Defense and Congress, promotes education on the events of Exercise Tiger, and holds annual ceremonies honoring the participants in Exercise Tiger. The address of the Exercise Tiger Association is P.O. Box 1050 Beach Haven, NJ 08008.
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jhr
Well-known member
They were rehearsing for the Normandy landings at night (Slapton beach is long and shelves quickly, as mentioned previously, so suitable for the purpose). Lots of landing craft with soldiers, tanks etc. on board were grouped offshore when a group of German E-boats got in amongst them and managed to sink several craft, many of which went down v.v. fast because of their heavy loads. The casualties (all Americans, I think) ran into the hundreds but it was hushed up at the time, so as not to damage morale.
"The Forgotten Dead" referred to above tells the story well and movingly. The tank was salvaged and restored as a monument to those who died. As others have said, Slapton Leys and the village are worth a visit if you're in the area and I add my voice to those who have mentioned The Tower - excellent beer and food.
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"The Forgotten Dead" referred to above tells the story well and movingly. The tank was salvaged and restored as a monument to those who died. As others have said, Slapton Leys and the village are worth a visit if you're in the area and I add my voice to those who have mentioned The Tower - excellent beer and food.
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jhr
Well-known member
Errm..
..slightly outflanked by Badger's excellent reply, but glad to see that I got the basic facts just about right!
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..slightly outflanked by Badger's excellent reply, but glad to see that I got the basic facts just about right!
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longjohnsilver
Well-known member
Re: Slapton sands incident
What was also hushed up was the fact that many locals were forcibly moved out of their homes to accomodate the US troops.
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What was also hushed up was the fact that many locals were forcibly moved out of their homes to accomodate the US troops.
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G
Guest
Guest
Re: Slapton sands incident
Personnel who knew the plans for D Day were codenamed 'Bigots'.When the news of the disaster reached General Eisenhower he was extremely concerned at reports of one or more of the E-Boats picking up survivors- in case some of these were 'Bigots'.He ordered that all 'Bigots' lost in Operation Tiger were to be accounted for at all costs.This was done using divers and extensive searches.In the event no 'Bigots' had fallen into German hands and the secrets of D Day were safe.The story I was told is that the Royal Navy escort vessels at Plymouth were held up by fog so the convoy of landing ships were not properly protected.As the whole success of D Day was dependent on the ability of the Allied Navies to protect the soldiers taking part in the landings it was decided that the disaster should be kept secret for reasons of morale.All survivors were posted back to the U.S.A. and took no part in D Day.Local rumour has it that the dead were buried in secret mass graves which are there to this day.There was an item on this story on the Radio 4 'Today' programme some years ago and they found someone who as a boy had seen some of these graves.One of the reasons for the high number of casualties was that many men survived the E-boat attack but once in the water they slowly drowned as the inflatable life belts they were issued with were worn around the waist and this caused them to continuously bob back and fore in the swell.Hundreds of bodies were washed ashore with life belts on and fully inflated. Given the sacrifices such as these that the Americans made I find it hard to understand the violent anti-Americanism that seems to be so in vogue in this country at the moment.I think it is in no small measure due to the blood and treasure they spent that we have the personal freedoms we seem to take for granted today.
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Personnel who knew the plans for D Day were codenamed 'Bigots'.When the news of the disaster reached General Eisenhower he was extremely concerned at reports of one or more of the E-Boats picking up survivors- in case some of these were 'Bigots'.He ordered that all 'Bigots' lost in Operation Tiger were to be accounted for at all costs.This was done using divers and extensive searches.In the event no 'Bigots' had fallen into German hands and the secrets of D Day were safe.The story I was told is that the Royal Navy escort vessels at Plymouth were held up by fog so the convoy of landing ships were not properly protected.As the whole success of D Day was dependent on the ability of the Allied Navies to protect the soldiers taking part in the landings it was decided that the disaster should be kept secret for reasons of morale.All survivors were posted back to the U.S.A. and took no part in D Day.Local rumour has it that the dead were buried in secret mass graves which are there to this day.There was an item on this story on the Radio 4 'Today' programme some years ago and they found someone who as a boy had seen some of these graves.One of the reasons for the high number of casualties was that many men survived the E-boat attack but once in the water they slowly drowned as the inflatable life belts they were issued with were worn around the waist and this caused them to continuously bob back and fore in the swell.Hundreds of bodies were washed ashore with life belts on and fully inflated. Given the sacrifices such as these that the Americans made I find it hard to understand the violent anti-Americanism that seems to be so in vogue in this country at the moment.I think it is in no small measure due to the blood and treasure they spent that we have the personal freedoms we seem to take for granted today.
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hlb
RIP
Re: Slapton sands incident
Just because they helped out eventually and only after Pearl Harbour. Dont mean we have to love them forever, no matter what they do.
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Just because they helped out eventually and only after Pearl Harbour. Dont mean we have to love them forever, no matter what they do.
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Badger
Member
Re: Slapton sands incident
I agree with your sentiments. You would hope that with a new generation of Allied troops about to go into action, people will stop undermining their morale and show some support for them if not the politicians.I think all of these appeasers are going to feel very foolish in a few weeks time when we find out what has really been going on and the people of Iraq are rejoicing in the streets.
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I agree with your sentiments. You would hope that with a new generation of Allied troops about to go into action, people will stop undermining their morale and show some support for them if not the politicians.I think all of these appeasers are going to feel very foolish in a few weeks time when we find out what has really been going on and the people of Iraq are rejoicing in the streets.
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