Skipper Insurance for Transatlantic

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scotty123

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Have a quote from my chosen Skipper, for assisted delivery trip from New York - UK, probably in May.

Our negotiations have now paused, because he is introducing his Skipper liability insurance into the equation.

I have agreed with my insurers (Pant) that the boat should be fully covered for total loss etc. Does the Skipper need his additional insurance & what is it likely to cost him (I'm likely to be footing the bill in some shape or form).
 
I wd be interested to hear about this.

The notion of skipper liability insurance would seem to imply that having paid out the owner for a loss - the insurance company might then take action against the skipper, personally. And probably sort-of have a case, in a ghastly USA style - he's the master under God so he took mostif not all decisions which led to the problem or loss.

I'm guessing that he's a yank?
 
Re: oh, a link

Can't speak for all underwriters but I would have thought that if he is your appointed skipper than that should be sufficient. The only risk that would remain outside that would be if he was grossly negligent, however in real terms gross negligence is very tough to prove from insuers perspective.
 
Re: oh, a link

Hmmm. I know sweet FA about skippering a yacht professionally but as a freelance sound engineer and musician I do know something about PLI and I wouldn't get out of bed without it!

The events and venues I work at will invariably have insurance and often this will ostensibly extend to cover my liability as well but there's no way I'd risk relying on it!

In the event of a major claim against your insurance (say the yacht was a total loss during the trip) running into tens of thousands of pounds or more, your insurers are going to be looking every which way for someone to offload some or all of the claim onto and the professional delivery skipper is an obvious target.

In his shoes, unless I was 110% certain that your insurance covered me against any possibility of being at financial risk I'd arrange my own insurance and include any additional costs over and above my regular cover in the bill. Seems fair enough to me!
 
The yacht delivery organisation I work with uses David Brett of Marine and General for delivery skipper insurance. I wouldn't put to sea without it, but I know that hundreds do! Best thing would be to ask David. I am not sure how he would react to having his company details on the board (or whether it might be construed as advertising here) so I will PM you with his details.

Richard
 
Gross Negligence - watch out, there\'s a claimant about

"The only risk that would remain outside that would be if he was grossly negligent, however in real terms gross negligence is very tough to prove from insuers perspective."

He did mention the 2 delivery guys who were hit for 85% & 15% of the value of a £450,000 powerboat in the High Court last year, because the insurers refused to pay claim. So, the concept of 'Gross negligence' seems to be alive & kicking in UK.

"I'm guessing that he's a yank?"

No, just a cautious Brit!
 
Re: oh, a link

"Can't speak for all underwriters but I would have thought that if he is your appointed skipper than that should be sufficient."

Are you suggesting, that I now 'carry the can', by 'appointing' him?
 
slent powerboat crash

well erm yes, i suppose the trick would be to not to be grossly negligent by being a well experienced skipper. Driving at speed inshore and espec west thru the solent in poor vis or dark or without looking was not a great idea.

I thought the solent case was was not that straightforward? - the insurers didn't have details and hadn't agreed they could be skippers? Summink like that. Or the boat wasn't covered cos they weren't commercial or such.

Bit irish that he wants you to arrange his insurance cover? Cos heh, you'd be tempted to take the cheap options and not the supercover he would want? Is there some additional insurance against not taking out the right level of yacht skipper liability insurance?...
 
Why not speak to Pantaenius - who are approachable and sensible in my experience. Ask them if this is necessary. If they say "no, the only circumstances we would proceed against him is gross negligence" then ask him whether his PI would cover gross negligence - I suspect not!
 
I would expect and advise any delivery skipper to have professional indemnity insurance, and that being the case would expect to pay for it. Either way the skipper will have to fund it by either inflating his fee or charging it as an extra. There is no such thing as a free lunch.

I think the answer to your question depends on how much he is charging for delivery and how much he is going to have to fork out for the insurance. I think it would have been helpful if he had mentioned it at an earlier stage so that you could have made comparisons with quotes from other skippers, but I do think oit is unreasonable of you to expect him to rely on your insurance no matter what the company is.
 
"Either way the skipper will have to fund it by either inflating his fee or charging it as an extra. There is no such thing as a free lunch."

Agreed!

The Skipper could be paying between £300-£400, for this basic indemnity cover, so its got to be paid for somehow.

If the question is, 'is it needed', it can only be answered post-claim.

Would Pantaenious be happy to be the only insurers for such a trip?
Anyone prepared to ask them?
 
Again no experience with yacht delivery PLI but my PLI as a sound engineer and musician covers me for any liability including anything resulting from my being a complete dickhead (provided I'm not ratted at the time)

I suspect that a pro delivery skipper would have a permanent PLI policy that would cover him under normal circs but which has limitations as to areas (my PLI has certain restrictions, not themselves relevant to this subject, which may mean arranging additional one-off cover at extra cost for specific events)

Given the potential liability resulting from the loss of an expensive boat, let alone the loss of someones life, nobody in their right mind would offer their services in any capacity without PLI these days

Mine costs me just a couple of hundred quid a year and I sleep a lot easier because of it

Maybe the guy didn't realise at the time he initially suggested a price that he was going to incur additional costs (if he knew then he should have included it up front for sure)
 
Deliveries I've done I have always checked with the owners insurance to find out
1. If the yacht is fully insured, which includes PLI, incase you drop a spanner when working up the mast etc...to cover accidents and members of the public or crew.
2. If the insurance company will insure me as skipper under the same terms as the owner for the planned passage and any possible alternatives that might come up as a result of a diversion caused by weather or gear failure. This is usually a formality of them telling me what qualifications endorsments are needed.

There is also a simple contract of responsibilities from where to where, time periods etc between me and the owner. I havn;t done any for a few years and there seems to be more litigation but I would be happy to work under the same conditions.

My insurance was really for work when not contracted, so lets say inspecting a vessel prior to taking a delivery contract and I put my foot through the sprayhood or drop my briefcase on someones head getting off the boat when it's ashore.
 
Apart from PLI professional contractors are advised to have Professional Indemnity Insurance. The cost of this should be factored in to the rate that the contractor accepts, not a bolt on charge.
Delivery skippers should come under the same ausposis.
 
Re: Gross Negligence - watch out, there\'s a claimant about

He therefore seems like a thorough person/skipper. Do you want to risk loosing him arguing about whether this is in effect extra unecessary insurance/
 
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