Sitting Ducks

I imagine that there's as much chance of getting rowers to pay in proportion to their usage as there is getting cyclists to pay road tax.
 
hartcjhart said:
but what my suggestion is that the money goes directly to the EA/waterways people to spend on waterway usage/facilities, not into central govs coffers
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Treasury rules require, I think, that money raised for a specific purpose should be applied to that purpose. Hence, licence fees for the Thames/Navigation/Waterways should be spent on them. Have a feeling there is some "cross fertilisation" between waterways and around 20% or so gets top sliced to pay head office and support services.

But, if there is a successful prosecution for, say, an unlicensed boat, whilst the costs and compensation will go to the EA the fines go to the treasury. Result is almost always a net loss to the EA.

My biggest concern is that we face above inflation rises every year which are completely arbitrary and bear no relationship to any budgetary requirement or recognition of actual benefit to different classes of river user.

And, unless there is sone last minute change of plan, the recommendation is that there will be a further 4.8% increase in January.
 
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boatone said:
Treasury rules require, I think, that money raised for a specific purpose should be applied to that purpose. Hence, licence fees for the Thames/Navigation/Waterways should be spent on them. Have a feeling there is some "cross fertilisation" between waterways and around 20% or so gets top sliced to pay head office and support services.

But, if there is a successful prosecution for, say, an unlicensed boat, whilst the costs and compensation will go to the EA the fines go to the treasury. Result is almost always a net loss to the EA.

My biggest concern is that we face above inflation rises every year which are completely arbitrary and bear no relationship to any budgetary requirement or recognition of actual benefit to different classes of river user.

And, unless there is sone last minute change of plan, the recommendation is that there will be a further 4.8% increase in January.
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which is why I say charge more,I personally would not care about paying 1k a year for a boat IF I can moor up without charge,and stop all this ****
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...Enforcement-trials-Weybridge-and-Walton/page4
 
hartcjhart said:
which is why I say charge more,I personally would not care about paying 1k a year for a boat IF I can moor up without charge,and stop all this ****
http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...Enforcement-trials-Weybridge-and-Walton/page4
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A very interesting and attractive suggestion.Two sides to that tho.The buggas who well outstay their gratis 24/48 hours are not going to be shifted by virtue of having to actually pay something to moor and even if you doubled licence for canal boats/obvious livaboard type boat to say £2000 PA,it still cheaper than having to fork out a min of 8-10K plus rates etc if you rent a property.
No record of permanant mooring on Thames !,charge a daily rate and collect dosh when boat exits Thames.
Normal visitors (me) no change,long termers pay by day,discount for advance payment.Most temperary visitors know exactly when they are going to exit river.Suspect long term berth blockers do not.
 
What gets me is that boating is an expense hobby to have, I am probably one of the younger boaters at 30 and coming from being on boats from the age of 5 years old meant I really wanted to buy a boat of my own.

If I had to say to my wife that I was going to have to pay a lot more for the licence for the Thames that wouldn't have gone down well, what really gets me though is I have a 20 foot boat which I have chosen to keep in a marina for facility's etc and paying up front for the year works out at about £4.50 per day but if I more on a EA morning for a night it will probably only cost me £5 per night and the guy in the Pedro or fairline or the liveaboard narrow boat also pays the same, how is that fair? cost more per night?

I expect to have to pay more per year (every year :() but I would rather pay for when I use the boat in case I can't afford to do it that month or that year and paying more for using morning helps with that, also if I can't afford the morning fee for a night out of the marina then I can find a morning that's free if possible. Also if the paid morning where more AND where collected regularly then you would see liveboards move on.

Also I can understand that for the licence fee being worked out on sq metre being fair for narrowboats using the Thames but for public morning paying the same rate as my 20foot boat doesn't seem fair either....

anyway just my 2 pence worth
 
All these ideas all well and good but a waste of time. First requirement is to win a review, then we can start arguing for new charging regime. Even that is likely to take a long time to achieve.

Bear in mind that ALL river users will likely be involved in the consultation phase so really important that we are well represented and can speak with the authority of a large number of licence payers.

BLATANT Advertising …. If you haven't joined the TMBA yet please stop sitting on the fence and do so NOW - We are the ONLY river based organisation whose members are ALL EA Thames licence holders.

With almost 10.000 motor boaters on the Thames it surely should be possible to build a 1,000 member strong body?

Just £5 buys you membership until 31/12/14 and every single member is a demonstrable vote for change - it's all about strength of numbers.

Please, please, give me a hand here ! http://www.tmba.org.uk/register/
 
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apollo said:
That's a conversation killer!
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That would be a great pity ! Constructive dissuasion is always good. However argument on this forum, whilst providing somewhere for folks to let off steam, is unlikely to actually lead to change.

Like it or not, we live in a so called democracy where due process has to be observed. That means we have to approach government - note, government, not EA Thames - in a well organised and prepared way.
 
boatone said:
Bear in mind that ALL river users will likely be involved in the consultation phase so really important that we are well represented and can speak with the authority of a large number of licence payers.

BLATANT Advertising …. If you haven't joined the TMBA yet please stop sitting on the fence and do so NOW - We are the ONLY river based organisation whose members are ALL EA Thames licence holders.

With almost 10.000 motor boaters on the Thames it surely should be possible to build a 1,000 member strong body?

Just £5 buys you membership until 31/12/14 and every single member is a demonstrable vote for change - it's all about strength of numbers.

Please, please, give me a hand here ! http://www.tmba.org.uk/register/
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Do you do any promotional work outside of the Internet?
 
Brayman said:
Do you do any promotional work outside of the Internet?
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A little. I have had some ad slips printed which are in the office at some marinas and chandlers.

I also talk to boaters when waiting at locks etc and hand them a few to give to their friends. The general reaction is often that they think I am wasting my time but some have been receptive and I know have handed them on !

I am in the process of setting up a press release list to send info to the various publications such as MBM.

Time and money are a constraint although the money situation is easing now subscriptions are coming in so I will be able to pay for further printing etc (all funded out of my own pocket thus far).

The number of people ordering stickers is very encouraging and they are something visible for people to see.
 
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apollo said:
Added to that, these jokers have a regatta, cordon the river off and rather than giving us the central third to go on which we pay £700 odd quid, we get the twenty foot of river adjacent to the bank.

What makes it so bad is they behave like they own the river and yet they pay diddly squat. We pay the lions share and get the scraps.

If this were france we would all be blockading
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Well said.
 
boatone said:
The fees for rowing craft, canoes etc actually demonstrate the problem. Even if you double or quadrupled them (imagine the furore) it would not actually provide any significant increase in real income.
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No, but ending the Club bulk purchase discount might? It's basically being used as an incentive to get rowers to join clubs anyway and is a gross misdirection of funds that really should go to EA.... (IMHO)
 
Remember that Rowers are paying. You may believe it's not enough, but they do pay. Unlike the people who organise swimming events and want the river closed. And the cyclists who will mow you down on the towpath....

Rowers rarely use the locks. They don't use moorings or use pump out facilities. Being long thin boats, they would not pay much even if they were charged by area.

I think there should be a charge for taking over a navigation. Regatta sir? That will cost you X.

River swim/Triathalon? There should be a charge.

Want to close loads of roads around Surrey for yet another cycle race? Then pay up.
 
Just an odd thought; when 2/3 of the river is closed off for a rowing regatta (or anything else really) is this due to an actual closure by the EA, or a gentleman's agreement between users?
 
Do you think the ROBOs have read these rules?

Quote "
3.
It is an offence to cause obstruction or annoyance to river or towpath users.

4.
Every person in charge of a boat must keep a proper look out and take all reasonable action
to avoid a collision.

5.
It is an offence to drive, place or leave a vehicle on the towpath unless there is a right of
way.

6.
It is an offence to place any works (e.g. temporary landing stages, piles, buoys etc) in or on
the river without consent from us.

7.
All river users need to comply with The Thames Navigation Licensing and General Byelaws
1993, available atwww.environment-agency.gov.uk/boatingbyelaws

For further clarification or guidance, please contact your local Waterway office using the contact details
provided in our accompanying letter."



I suspect not... LOL!
 
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And better still....

Quote:
"4.
If you wish to place marker buoys or floating notices in the river, you must contact your local
Waterway office and discuss your plans because there may be requirements as to where
and when you can place them to avoid causing an obstruction to river traffic.

Please note if you wish to lay a buoyed channel or install other structures in the river, you
need our formal consent and this may include action, or support, that is chargeable.

5.
We recommend you tell local passenger boat operators, hire boat bases, river-based clubs
and the reach co-ordinator of the local River User Group (RUG)
(www.riverusergroups.co.uk) about your plans for the event and discuss any concerns they
may have.

6.
We operate a charging scheme to recover our costs for providing patrol launch service at
river events in certain circumstances. We will discuss and agree event management and
patrol attendance details including any applicable charges with you in advance, please refer
to the enclosed information"

A. When do they EVER pay?

B. When do they consult with the RUGs?

C. Marlow RC in particular, seem to think a channel through trees (to be used also by non competing rowers) is enough for the other river users..
 
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Ramage said:
And better still....

Quote:
"4.
If you wish to place marker buoys or floating notices in the river, you must contact your local
Waterway office and discuss your plans because there may be requirements as to where
and when you can place them to avoid causing an obstruction to river traffic.

Please note if you wish to lay a buoyed channel or install other structures in the river, you
need our formal consent and this may include action, or support, that is chargeable.

5.
We recommend you tell local passenger boat operators, hire boat bases, river-based clubs
and the reach co-ordinator of the local River User Group (RUG)
(www.riverusergroups.co.uk) about your plans for the event and discuss any concerns they
may have.

6.
We operate a charging scheme to recover our costs for providing patrol launch service at
river events in certain circumstances. We will discuss and agree event management and
patrol attendance details including any applicable charges with you in advance, please refer
to the enclosed information"

A. When do they EVER pay?

B. When do they consult with the RUGs?

C. Marlow RC in particular, seem to think a channel through trees (to be used also by non competing rowers) is enough for the other river users..
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LOL! Maybe one for you to take direct to your local Mr RUG rep? Of course you'll need specific recent examples, to make any complaint evidential rather than anecdotal. But I reckon there's a pretty good chance that as a club we will be obstructed by at least one rowing club event at ALL of our planned club cruises next year! I'm being 'anecdotal', not 'evidential', of course! ;)

Good luck with that. :o
 
thames cruiser said:
LOL! Maybe one for you to take direct to your local Mr RUG rep? Of course you'll need specific recent examples, to make any complaint evidential rather than anecdotal. But I reckon there's a pretty good chance that as a club we will be obstructed by at least one rowing club event at ALL of our planned club cruises next year! I'm being 'anecdotal', not 'evidential', of course! ;)

Good luck with that. :o
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The RUG groups are a bit hit and miss, some are good but others not so good. Also, the RUG groups website is down which doesn't help (we have provided archive info re contacts etc on the TMBA website here: http://www.tmba.org.uk/river-user-groups/

These issues are something I am hoping the TMBA will be able to address once we have sharpened our teeth. We are not just interested in representing motor boaters interests with the EA but in all matters that affect our use of the river. We aim to be represented on all the RUG groups but I would stress that we will represent our members so if you haven't paid your sub yet …… :D

As far as the clubs etc paying is concerned, whatever the intent I suspect the actual financial recovery is limited or non existent. The Henley Royal Regatta still cost the EA over £15k in direct support costs this year and the only income was the payment for accommodation licences relating to the booms etc.
 
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