Sinking 'RAWFAITH'

stuhaynes

stuhaynes

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Sad story this, though happily the crew survived. It's the story of an 88 foot self build (elsewhere she is described as 118 foot). Timber, 300 tons, designed and built by Captain George McKay to better the life of his disabled daughter.

At his website (link below), there are pictures of the build, from chopping down the trees all the way to launch. Also included is video from the coastguard of the rescue.

Captain McKay has come in for a lot of stick, but that aside, the shear determination to finish this massive project is amazing.

I'll not try to tell you anymore, it's all at the link. (Both good and bad)

Story of RawFaith
 
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This guy is the US version of Captain Calamity.

He has been towed into port by the US coastguard many times.

It has no engine and could not tack but had to wear ship.

Some of the rigging and steering connections were Heath Robinson to put it mildly.

I suppose you have to admire him for his intentions in building Raw Faith but not his execution.
 
TQA said:
This guy is the US version of Captain Calamity.

He has been towed into port by the US coastguard many times.

It has no engine and could not tack but had to wear ship.

Some of the rigging and steering connections were Heath Robinson to put it mildly.

I suppose you have to admire him for his intentions in building Raw Faith but not his execution.
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This is why I said that he'd had some stick. Didn't we have someone similar in the UK a couple of years ago? It's the determination in the build that I was talking about. ;)
 
Captain McKay has come in for a lot of stick, but that aside, the shear determination to finish this massive project is amazing.

And the shear idiosy of ignoring any normal construction or design standards because his faith guided him. The ship was an absolute death trap and he intended to take handicapped children out on it. If you read some of the threads on the Wooden Boat Forum you might get the idea.
Quite a few have wondered about his taking it out at this time of year destined for Bermuda. No insurance of course (who would?) and only one crew. Lunacy
 
stuhaynes said:
Sad story this, though happily the crew survived. It's the story of an 88 foot self build (elsewhere she is described as 118 foot). Timber, 300 tons, designed and built by Captain George McKay to better the life of his disabled daughter.

At his website (link below), there are pictures of the build, from chopping down the trees all the way to launch. Also included is video from the coastguard of the rescue.

Captain McKay has come in for a lot of stick, but that aside, the shear determination to finish this massive project is amazing.

I'll not try to tell you anymore, it's all at the link. (Both good and bad)

Story of RawFaith
Click to expand...

Well up to a point perhaps. Seeing the pictures of her build allows some understanding of why the USCGS were so concerned about her and it's no surprise that she sank, so no loss of life, great. However 6000 feet of water and no prospect of salvage is probably the safest place for her.
 
Raw Faith sinking

You can admire his tenacity to build such a boat but not his sensibility in ignoring the advice of experts in boat design. And don't forget that over in Maine they have enormous wealth of experience in building proper wooden boats.
To judge his state of mind for yourselves, do read this post made on his website in 2006 after one of his rescues by the coastguard. It's a shocker:


"13 May 2006
Patty is right- this will take thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars. The Raw Faith must now comply with all USCG regulations regarding commercial passenger vessels. This means we can help accomplish their mission as long as we give the money. They will need new masts, new rigging, maybe a new design, and lots of regulation accessories- proper communication and navigation equipment, proper life rafts, etc. The rules change the larger the vessel, and unfortunately, there are more rules for an 88 foot boat. They'll need to have a marine architect and a marine engineer approve their plans. They'll need expert boatbuilding help. They''ll need to comply with the Federal handicap rules- like installing hydraulic lifts and specially equipped bathrooms- which are very expensive. This is good news, though, no nay sayers will be able to tell them they can't do what they've been trying to do all along! It will take an enormous amount of funding- but we Christians are willing to give. Together, we can help realize this dream, all it takes is our prayers, our continued faith, and most of all, our money!!! Please give all that you can. With all good Christian's help, we can help them do it.

13 May 2006
Our lord and savior must have great things planned for the RawFaith and her crew. Oh what a test of the Captain's true faith; to be buffeted by the sea on both attempts to go south. And now to be buffeted by the non-beliving heathens. Be strong, persevere, don't give in, you have heard the voice of God and he will continue to show you the way. Pay no heed to the naysayers, they have no idea of the power that belief gives us.

You can accomplish your goal, He will continue to show the way, all it takes is more money. Open your hearts and your check books, as you write a check, feel the lightness of the lord's hand. Don't listen to the so called experts, let your faith guide you. Noah saw the sinners all around him, the scoffers, the Jews. Let the bible give you the stregnth to finish the mission.

Be strong George, don't listen to anyone but the Lord "
 
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innesker said:
13 May 2006
Our lord and savior must have great things planned for the RawFaith and her crew.
Click to expand...

I think their lord and saviour has just demonstrated, pretty conclusively, what He thought of the project. How nice to see an act of god when it's really needed.

raw_faith_sinking1.jpg


Picture taken from a full report including CG video of the crew rescue here.
 
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I have had a good look at it all...:D
My posture is not one of malice, I assure you, but one of morbid fascination that anyone can concieve such a monstrosity of a construction for a seagoing vessel. Its the sort of thing you find in kits for the making of model wooden galleons and suchlike.
Fortunately...:D....fortunately..... he didn't have the idea of building a submarine instead..:D
 
If he has that much faith he can walk on the water surely. I'm never happy to see a boat founder, but this wasn't really an accident was it. It was the culmination of a predictable series of events. I feel sorry for him, but not all that sorry.

Tim
 
I can't bring myself to feel sorry for the man and his followers.The whole thing is a monument to crass stupidity and is probably indicative of how many people think over there.To top it up I'm sure they all found some biblical explanation for the sinking making it all well after all.
 
I found the surveyor's report (port inspection) interesting. I'm surprised he didn't say anything about the construction. I can't believe it had much strength, especially the deck with all its discontinuities, never mind the 'composite' beams. Anyway, it took me a second reading to work out where he got the title Captain. Seems he has a US Coastguard masters cert up to 100 tons. My YM Offshore cert mentions 200grt, but I wouldn't dare even think of calling myself a captain. Are you sure they speak the same language?

Edit: I also like the US Coastguard statement that they left a cutter there to ensure it sank. Does that mean that if the bulkheads had held they'd have opened fire to make sure?
 
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Commenting on this post

Got the urge to comment but am not sure this is the place to criticise religious beliefs.
I just cringe whenever people describe themselves as Christians it just smacks of twisting the truth to suit them selves. in this case to believe that his idea is not only a good idea but endorsed by God. The arrogance is amazing.

I kind of support the nutters who want to do something really way out like building this boat but to get other people to finance it and even more to risk their lives all in the name of faith. Yikes!

Boat design has come a long way since the days of Spanish Amarda and the British equivalent. There is every good reason to use modern techniques and materials. The sea is harsh enough without hampering yourself with ancient designs and then as interpreted by an amateur designer.

I think he would have been far better off with an AWB olewill with apologies to those I might offend.
 
dt4134 said:
Anyway, it took me a second reading to work out where he got the title Captain. Seems he has a US Coastguard masters cert up to 100 tons. My YM Offshore cert mentions 200grt, but I wouldn't dare even think of calling myself a captain.
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Many septics will start calling themselves "Captain" as soon as they have a rowing boat to their name. Sounds absurd to me. Just a cultural difference.

Pete
 
dt4134 said:
I found the surveyor's report (port inspection) interesting. I'm surprised he didn't say anything about the construction. I can't believe it had much strength, especially the deck with all its discontinuities, never mind the 'composite' beams. Anyway, it took me a second reading to work out where he got the title Captain. Seems he has a US Coastguard masters cert up to 100 tons. My YM Offshore cert mentions 200grt, but I wouldn't dare even think of calling myself a captain. Are you sure they speak the same language?

Edit: I also like the US Coastguard statement that they left a cutter there to ensure it sank. Does that mean that if the bulkheads had held they'd have opened fire to make sure?
Click to expand...

Actually they don't. They speak a mashed variant of the English language and that is part of the problem. The other part is they are all front. And the other part is that arcane ideas over there are the norm, and not the exception. If all of it were not so serious, it would be funny.

On second thoughts, all of it is funny, hilarious actually..:D

And I love the way the contraption is described as a hazard to navigation...:D
 
Devils advocate mode switched to "on" briefly...just briefly mind.

I sailed twice on the replica of Captain Cooks ship Endeavour. She is..as close as is possible.. a faithful replica and was built from the original plans which were kept at Greenwich. This created considerable problems when complying with current construction and safety regulations, but given the historical context there were certain things that were impossible to achieve, such as water tight bulkheads, escape routes to meet modern requirements (there were escape routes, but they were quite scarily narrow in places). In these cases special dispensations were given to allow the ship to operate.

However, when the ship did a tour of the USA all bets were off, and the port officials in each state found different regulatory reasons to refuse her entry when she actually arrived, in spite of there having been advanced parties negotiating the tour and making agreements for up to a year in advance. In particular they found that as she had paying voyage crew, she was deemed a 'commercial' vessel, which took her into a different league of safety requirements she could not possibly meet. The 'answer' was to make everybody on board an employee, so they were paid 1$ and had to have a contract of employment..and on and on it went. This is just one example of the many problems the ship encountered with officialdom. The Captain famously said to us "Anyone who thinks this ship floats on water is fooling themselves. This ship floats on paperwork and water is the least of our problems"

The point I am making is that its quite possible that a regulatory regime that strangles in fact encourages people like 'Captain' McKay to go their own way regardless of consequences, and the result is too predictable. A lighter more user friendly regulatory rein might encourage people to stay within the bounds of good construction practice instead of feeling forced outside it..for reasons good or bad.

I am actually reading "The Anatomy of Nelson's Ships" at present. A blow by blow account of how HMS Victory and her ilk were constructed. At one level its quite simple, at another its bloody complicated.

Tim
 
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