Singular sail to keep head to wind?

rustybouy

rustybouy

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Now then :) , if you look at my avatar you will see a 7m day angler which is used to fish and have endless hours of fun on, however, she is very shallow drafted and only draw 2 1/2 feet, which means when out having fun fishing she will roll a fair bit, it's not always possible dropping the anchor to try and steady her up depending on the wind /tide direction, and shifting around ballast has made not a jot of difference, so my question is.........(bearing in mind i know nothing about sailing) can i put a small sail up top somewhere to keep her head into the wind? one of the old chaps who hang around my local harbour mentioned this one evening i think but it just went in one ear and out the other because i was busy, so can it be done? or has anyone done it and got any advice?

Thanks for any input, i dont contribute much on here but thats because i dont know anything about small boats, one day............:rolleyes:
 
Yes. I have seen small fishing boats all over the world fitted with a small sail aft for the reason you describe. Most seem to be a small triangular piece of cloth, no refinement, just flat. I guess you would need a small mast,no more than about 4 ft long, stepped in a socket on the transom. Add a short boom, perhaps 3 ft and probably the easiest way to attach the sail is to sew a pocket at the forward end, like a Topper, and slide it over the mast.

Then all that would be needed is a couple of lines to centre the boom and keep it fixed in position.
 
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Steadying sails are not uncommon on older fishing boats, especially down Cornwall way it seems. I might go for something a little bigger than Vyv's dimensions, but I agree completely flat is what you want (normally sails are cut with a curve in them to form an aerodynamic shape, but since yours is designed to be used head to wind that would just make it flap).

Pete
 
prv said:
Steadying sails are not uncommon on older fishing boats, especially down Cornwall way it seems. I might go for something a little bigger than Vyv's dimensions, but I agree completely flat is what you want (normally sails are cut with a curve in them to form an aerodynamic shape, but since yours is designed to be used head to wind that would just make it flap).

Pete
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A very big ensign?
 
A steadying sail won't keep you head to wind, just help point up a bit but the inertial damping effect of mast and sail will cerainly help reduce roll.

A short mast - and I'd say more like 10' to be any use - could also carry a radar reflector, VHF aerial and light so would be a useful thing to fit; with such a boat I certainly would.

It need to be as far aft as possible; an old Mirror mast seems ideal should you come across that or similar.

The sail should be reasonably easy to remove, both for the mooring ( ? you want the boat to behave the same as any other boats on moorings nearby so best removing the sail, reduces wear too ) and in the event of really strong winds.
 
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drogue?

We have the same problem on my mates Hardy. The steadying sails on fishing vessesl work well when hauling gear as this acts as an anchor bringing the boat head to wind when the sail is up.

Without some resistance at the bow or at least towards the bow the steadying sail probably won't do a lot other than provide some damping as already suggested.

You could try a drogue of some sort over the bow in combination with a sail, this may be easier to deploy and retrieve than an anchor while fishing. We tried a small dumpy sack from the stern (the local council gave them out for green waste) to keep the boat from moving around at anchor. Worked ok.

You could try a drogue on its own and see how well that works - cheaper than fitting a mast/rig and sail!
 
Not sure I agree.

Seajet said:
A steadying sail won't keep you head to wind, just help point up a bit but the inertial damping effect of mast and sail will cerainly help reduce roll.

A short mast - and I'd say more like 10' to be any use - could also carry a radar reflector, VHF aerial and light so would be a useful thing to fit; with such a boat I certainly would.

It need to be as far aft as possible; an old Mirror mast seems ideal should you come across that or similar.

The sail should be reasonably easy to remove, both for the mooring ( ? you want the boat to behave the same as any other boats on moorings nearby so best removing the sail, reduces wear too ) and in the event of really strong winds.
Click to expand...

I had a similar size Motorsailor which had a 45 square foot Mizen and if I set that and sheeted it in hard, it did hold the boat right up into the wind and reduced the roll but it flapped a lot as the cut was very full so you really want a very flat cut sail.

Just fitting a mast with a bit of weight aloft will also make the boat feel more comfortable.

Just adding a bit. If I was a bit tardy in letting the mizzen run free, it would stop the boat coming about and I would end up in irons.
 
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I did mention the inertial damping of a mast would help; I can't see a riding sail holding a boat actually head to wind, except at anchor, but if drifting a sea anchor drogue would help a huge amount, she'll still pay off a little but be a lot more comfortable than just lying ahull.
 
Seajet said:
I can't see a riding sail holding a boat actually head to wind, except at anchor...
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It should do if it's big enough and far aft enough. It's not just size - it's leverage too.

Its just like your tailplane at the zero load condition Andy :D It only works when it needs to - ie when the boat yaws enough for the sail to produce a wee bit of drive. To look at it another way - if you bring the centre of windage (technical term :)) aft of the centre of lateral resistance then there with be a 'moment' trying to bring her head to wind.

Us sea kayakers do it the other way - a tiny adjustable skeg at the back is all it takes to trim the boat so it heads up (or down) wind.
 
A riding sail sheeted hard amidships when used in combination with a drogue run-out directly from the bow will only dampen a tendency to roll as the boat continues to yaw.

A better system is to run-out the drogue via a bridle, adjusted in such a way that the bow points 15 degrees or so off the wind (needs experimentation), so that the riding sail is always kept full, a set-up which mimics the classic 'hove-to' position.
 
Little Rascal,

I'm thinking of a boats' natural tendency for the bows to blow downwind; historically people trying this and sea anchors find the boat lies at around 45 degrees if lucky.
 
Mizzen

Boats down Cornwall way, as mentioned earlier used to us mizzen sails when working Mackerel shoals. The boat needs to be in gear for it to work more wind more revs, mizzens are still used for working static gear but boat is also in gear to move up on the gear.
 
Seajet said:
I can't see a riding sail holding a boat actually head to wind, .
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The reason most boats won't lie head to wind is because the windage forward of the 'pivot point' is greater than that aft of it.

Adding a large enough sail aft of the pivot point will counteract that tendency.
 
Parsifal & Little Rascal,

the bows are usually the highest as in windage, and most boats have either keel/s & rudder for sail or a vestigial keel & rudder for motor boats, all of which means grip on the water aft, little or none forward.

All of this is a recipe for bows going downwind, as we find in marinas...

The mentions of using stern lines as an adjustable bridle to adjust attitude to a drogue are a part answer, about all that's possible, using drogue & riding sail.

I suppose a modern answer might be engine in gear and an autopilot told to keep her head up but it doesn't seem very salty, and I presume angling boats could do without a turning prop.
 
Fishing boat

Yes a small sail on a mast as far as possible aft will tend to turn the boat head to wind as said. I suggest you will need bigger than 4ft mast more like 12ft 3 metre I think.
However if the concern is rolling then also as said roll stopper s might help. Get a sheet of ply f/g or steel suspended flat from all 4 corners and hang it over the side at point of max beam. Let it go down well below waves etc ie 2 metres. Duplicate on the other side. Now when the boat tries to roll it will have to lift the sheet against a lot of water pressure so resisting the roll. How big the sheet needs to be is a question you need to find from experience. I would start with about 1 sq metre. good luck olewill
 
Excellent advice from all , thanks for all your comments, really like the idea of the "flopper stopper" (quite like saying it to..flopper stopper flopper stopper flopper stopper) looks like a easy solution along with the mizzen sail aft, the boat does have alot of windage area for'd ...so if i compensate for this aft it should make a difference, guess i'll try to fashion something homemade for both setups, thanks again you guys, magic result!

(flopper stopper....flopper stopper) just rolls off the tongue :D
 
rustybouy said:
Excellent advice from all , thanks for all your comments, really like the idea of the "flopper stopper" (quite like saying it to..flopper stopper flopper stopper flopper stopper) looks like a easy solution along with the mizzen sail aft, the boat does have alot of windage area for'd ...so if i compensate for this aft it should make a difference, guess i'll try to fashion something homemade for both setups, thanks again you guys, magic result!

(flopper stopper....flopper stopper) just rolls off the tongue :D
Click to expand...

You might like to consider a Bumkin set on the stern so you can get the mast as far back as possible

If you look at "Rich's" post No 9 on

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=281811

You will see what I mean
 
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