Single-handed reefing

After pulling in the first reef I pull back through enough of the 2nd and 3rd reefing lines to clear the loose rope that has dropped onto the deck beside the mast. This will be the rope deposited from the luff reef cringles (or blocks in my case). The surplus rope from the 2nd & 3rd reefing lines at the leech drops into the stackpack, with a bit of guidance if necessary.
 
Full battened main, stackpack/lazy jacks, windvane, singleline 3 reefs with all lines led back to a cockpit with no windbreak, I can drop in a reef easily in under 60 seconds. The extra rope from the next reefs drop into the stackpack.

Really with a fully battened main, reefing is equivalent to reefing a junk rig but with less lines.
 
fishermantwo said:
Full battened main, stackpack/lazy jacks, windvane, singleline 3 reefs with all lines led back to a cockpit with no windbreak, I can drop in a reef easily in under 60 seconds. The extra rope from the next reefs drop into the stackpack.

Really with a fully battened main, reefing is equivalent to reefing a junk rig but with less lines.
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Since when has one second to reef a junk been "equivalent" to your "under 60 seconds for your fully battened main? I'm afraid the rigs are poles apart - junk rigs can hoist and reef sails regardless of attitude to wind - your lazy jacks have often been removed because yachtsmen, - particularly singlehanders, find them too inhibiting - have to rely on an autopilot to hold her into wind and then need searoom to windward etc etc.

Less lines? which rig? - most junk rigs have just four lines for everthing - and that includes mainsheet and halyard - have you sailed junk ketches or racing junks which may have more lines? I find the number of lines on bermudan boats intimidating.

So fully battened bermudan mains and junks are totally different.
 
The junk rig has the advantage of reefing on any point of sail. But simple the rig is not. I have never sailed one but thought long and hard about using one, inspired by Hasler/King etc. Modern technology and materials may have solved some of the junk rig issues but there is a reason they are not in widespread use.
 
chrisedwards said:
- your lazy jacks have often been removed because yachtsmen, - particularly singlehanders, find them too inhibiting - have to rely on an autopilot to hold her into wind and then need searoom to windward etc etc.
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I recognise this as a problem some people have with lazyjacks. A simple solution is to have enough slack in them so that they can be hooked back to the mast, out of the way while the sail is being hoisted. That's where they stay until the sail is reefed or dropped. Why leave them set up, perhaps chafing the sail and doing nothing except supporting a stackpack? I used to have one of those, but dispensed with it pretty quickly, on the evergreen KISS principle.
 
JayBee said:
I recognise this as a problem some people have with lazyjacks. A simple solution is to have enough slack in them so that they can be hooked back to the mast, out of the way while the sail is being hoisted. That's where they stay until the sail is reefed or dropped. Why leave them set up, perhaps chafing the sail and doing nothing except supporting a stackpack? I used to have one of those, but dispensed with it pretty quickly, on the evergreen KISS principle.
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Is "hooking back to the mast" a "simple solution" when on dark windy night and singlehanded and you have left them"set up" or can it be done from the cocpit - I suppose it is possible to rig some kind of brailling lines.
 
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fishermantwo said:
The junk rig has the advantage of reefing on any point of sail. But simple the rig is not. I have never sailed one but thought long and hard about using one, inspired by Hasler/King etc. Modern technology and materials may have solved some of the junk rig issues but there is a reason they are not in widespread use.
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You are absolutely right - the junk rig is not simple - it is, conceptually, sophisticated and subtle - maybe that's the reason its not in widespread use? I see little/no connection between modern junk rig and modern technology and materials as it is the manifestation of that sophistication and subtlety which is simple. - please could you explain.

I'll soon be shot down as a fanatic - its happened before on this forum - but I cannot let this wonderful rig be dismissed. Most have little/no experience - it baffles me why there is so much antipathy when the modern junk is so fast on the wind - (we beat comparable boats on the RTI - one of many examples)- even Dylan dismissed the rig on the grounds of aesthetics.

Surely aesthetical appreciation comes from experience - a fine wine, painting,..rig?
 
JUNK rig rebrand it as full batterned lugrig FBL rig (in a gerish font). Then read Roger Taylors book on how easy it is to sail when set up properly.


As to the original post. I do it all at the mast because "I'm a whimp". Less likly to be hit by swinging boom, no running back and foward likle to trip because i'm in a bad mood becouse that thing has fallen off again.

Keep it simple mathodical.
 
Spectacles

Back at the reefing, and a question about the "spectacles" that were mentioned earlier in this thread. When using the spectacles are both rings put on the ramshorns i.e. one on each side so the sail is pulled down centrally over the boom, or is only one ring used? I presume the latter as, if the former, the luff cringle wouldn't pull down to boom level because of the bulk of the folded sail on top of the boom. Just looking for clarification.
 
BlackPig said:
JUNK rig rebrand it as full batterned lugrig FBL rig (in a gerish font). Then read Roger Taylors book on how easy it is to sail when set up properly.


As to the original post. I do it all at the mast because "I'm a whimp". Less likly to be hit by swinging boom, no running back and foward likle to trip because i'm in a bad mood becouse that thing has fallen off again.

Keep it simple mathodical.
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junk rig is not a fully battened lugrig - sorry - no way near - I dont know where to start in the defence of this statement - so can we just leave it at that.
 
Having seen the ease with which Chris Edwards handles his junk-rigged boat ('Dragonfly'?), and also read of the exploits of Blondie Haslar and Roger Taylor, and spoken with a couple of owners of other j-r boats, I need no convincing of the practicality of the rig. I have also watched, and sailed in company with, Chinese junks in Hong Kong harbour.

However, it seems to me that the major problem with buying a junk-rigged boat, or converting an existing boat, is that when the time comes to sell you are faced with a very small pool of potential buyers.
 
chrisedwards said:
Is "hooking back to the mast" a "simple solution" when on dark windy night and singlehanded and you have left them"set up" or can it be done from the cocpit - I suppose it is possible to rig some kind of brailling lines.
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No. It can't be done from the cockpit, and if some way was found to do it, the result would surely be a nightmare, which is one reason why I like to do things at the mast.

The point is, that apart from the mainsheet and preventer if rigged, all the running rigging associated with my mainsail, lazy jacks included, is in one easily and safely accessed place at the mast. So, hooking back the lazy jacks to hoist the main or shake out a reef is simplicity itself. Nearly everything can be done from one comfortable sitting position, on a short harness tether to the foot of the mast.

Unfortunately, dark and windy nights seem to be part of my normal sailing experience.

:)
 
parsifal said:
Having seen the ease with which Chris Edwards handles his junk-rigged boat ('Dragonfly'?), and also read of the exploits of Blondie Haslar and Roger Taylor, and spoken with a couple of owners of other j-r boats, I need no convincing of the practicality of the rig. I have also watched, and sailed in company with, Chinese junks in Hong Kong harbour.

However, it seems to me that the major problem with buying a junk-rigged boat, or converting an existing boat, is that when the time comes to sell you are faced with a very small pool of potential buyers.
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I agree. The rig also seems best suited to Chinese junks, or very small western sailing boat hulls.
 
JimC said:
Back at the reefing, and a question about the "spectacles" that were mentioned earlier in this thread. When using the spectacles are both rings put on the ramshorns i.e. one on each side so the sail is pulled down centrally over the boom, or is only one ring used? I presume the latter as, if the former, the luff cringle wouldn't pull down to boom level because of the bulk of the folded sail on top of the boom. Just looking for clarification.
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Only one ring on whichever side it falls most easily - uphill probably falls off less.
 
parsifal said:
Having seen the ease with which Chris Edwards handles his junk-rigged boat ('Dragonfly'?), and also read of the exploits of Blondie Haslar and Roger Taylor, and spoken with a couple of owners of other j-r boats, I need no convincing of the practicality of the rig. I have also watched, and sailed in company with, Chinese junks in Hong Kong harbour.

However, it seems to me that the major problem with buying a junk-rigged boat, or converting an existing boat, is that when the time comes to sell you are faced with a very small pool of potential buyers.
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Very kind of you to comment - could I address second point about selling please.

Selling a junk rig is easier to sell than bermudan - like for like. I have sold/been involved in selling many in the last five years alone. These include: etap (twice) 2 freedom 30's venturer, 2 navigators,Lone Gull, two kingfisher 20 plusses (one twice)and a Colvic Countess.

it is simply a matter of supply and demand - Agreed - demand is low - but supply is lower.

Converting to junk is so expensive that most are willing to compromise on the hull but not the rig.

It is not a business! - I just get involved helping friends. - demo sails etc.
 
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