Sigma 36 vrs She 36
- Thread starter Phideaux
- Start date
A1Sailor
...
Depends - we don't know who he wanted to win. A bit if a Quandary...
nortada
Well-Known Member
Depends - we don't know who he wanted to win. A bit if a Quandary...
Good point!
True-Brit
New Member
Sigma 36
Seajet:
I own a Sigma 36 & have done for many years now, I singe handed sail her everywhere as my wife doesn't sail.....mainly coastal but at least 3 cross channel every year. The Sigmas you have looked at must have been made at a different factory to the one I own & any others I've looked at because mine is built like a brick s##t house (7.3 tons of it, not many modern boats have that much glass in um!) I've never had any issues sailing her alone, just need to plan your moves early the same as if your sailing any other yacht alone! The Sigma 33 in the 79 Fastnet finished & only had a couple of issues due to the fact it was the prototype, theses where sorted out on ALL future examples (one window broke & coachroof damage around window, coachroof was stiffened & a brace was fitted across the window on production models) NOT BAD FOR FIRST TIME OUT IN THOSE CONDITIONS! The Sigma range of yachts are of an excellent build quality (otherwise why would so many charter company's use them & so many still be around to tell the tail). You can't compare a car to a yacht you silly man.....I owned a RS Turbo many years ago & it was fun & reliable enough, I currently drive a VW Transporter again reliable...& I also have an Aston DB7 Vantage for weekends as a toy, it's expensive & not very reliable.....but non of the cars mentioned are anything like My Sigma, they don't even float!!!! I think your talking out of line...I've looked at your posts & you don't seem to have ever owned any of the above to even be in a position to comment on them constructively. We can always bring up story's we've heard about anything....anyway fair winds my friend & watch out for Mermaids
Seajet:
I own a Sigma 36 & have done for many years now, I singe handed sail her everywhere as my wife doesn't sail.....mainly coastal but at least 3 cross channel every year. The Sigmas you have looked at must have been made at a different factory to the one I own & any others I've looked at because mine is built like a brick s##t house (7.3 tons of it, not many modern boats have that much glass in um!) I've never had any issues sailing her alone, just need to plan your moves early the same as if your sailing any other yacht alone! The Sigma 33 in the 79 Fastnet finished & only had a couple of issues due to the fact it was the prototype, theses where sorted out on ALL future examples (one window broke & coachroof damage around window, coachroof was stiffened & a brace was fitted across the window on production models) NOT BAD FOR FIRST TIME OUT IN THOSE CONDITIONS! The Sigma range of yachts are of an excellent build quality (otherwise why would so many charter company's use them & so many still be around to tell the tail). You can't compare a car to a yacht you silly man.....I owned a RS Turbo many years ago & it was fun & reliable enough, I currently drive a VW Transporter again reliable...& I also have an Aston DB7 Vantage for weekends as a toy, it's expensive & not very reliable.....but non of the cars mentioned are anything like My Sigma, they don't even float!!!! I think your talking out of line...I've looked at your posts & you don't seem to have ever owned any of the above to even be in a position to comment on them constructively. We can always bring up story's we've heard about anything....anyway fair winds my friend & watch out for Mermaids
alant
Well-Known Member
Re: Sigma 36
An old post I found whilst looking at She 36 reviews recently (well you have todo something whilst lounging on the beach.).
Interesting to see how some forumites seem to have achieved stardom, still today making 'expert' comments & irritating others using 3rd hand information/experience.
Seajet:
I own a Sigma 36 & have done for many years now, I singe handed sail her everywhere as my wife doesn't sail.....mainly coastal but at least 3 cross channel every year. The Sigmas you have looked at must have been made at a different factory to the one I own & any others I've looked at because mine is built like a brick s##t house (7.3 tons of it, not many modern boats have that much glass in um!) I've never had any issues sailing her alone, just need to plan your moves early the same as if your sailing any other yacht alone! The Sigma 33 in the 79 Fastnet finished & only had a couple of issues due to the fact it was the prototype, theses where sorted out on ALL future examples (one window broke & coachroof damage around window, coachroof was stiffened & a brace was fitted across the window on production models) NOT BAD FOR FIRST TIME OUT IN THOSE CONDITIONS! The Sigma range of yachts are of an excellent build quality (otherwise why would so many charter company's use them & so many still be around to tell the tail). You can't compare a car to a yacht you silly man.....I owned a RS Turbo many years ago & it was fun & reliable enough, I currently drive a VW Transporter again reliable...& I also have an Aston DB7 Vantage for weekends as a toy, it's expensive & not very reliable.....but non of the cars mentioned are anything like My Sigma, they don't even float!!!! I think your talking out of line...I've looked at your posts & you don't seem to have ever owned any of the above to even be in a position to comment on them constructively. We can always bring up story's we've heard about anything....anyway fair winds my friend & watch out for Mermaids
An old post I found whilst looking at She 36 reviews recently (well you have todo something whilst lounging on the beach.).
Interesting to see how some forumites seem to have achieved stardom, still today making 'expert' comments & irritating others using 3rd hand information/experience.
Seajet
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Re: Sigma 36
That is at best a distortion; unless someone also using the callsign ' Seajet ' has one, I have never owned - or wished to own a Sigma 36, anyway I I thought they quickly went to the 38.
My friend did the Fastnet in a Sigma 33, they seemed fast-ish for their time but not all that robust.
The She 36 on the other hand is a truly desirable sailors' boat, but no modern trendy treble aft cabins and will cost A LOT to run properly nowadays.
At Redcliffe YC on the River Frome there is a painting of the She 36 ' Lorelei ' which did so brilliantly saving people in the 1979 Fastnet, inscribed by her owner " I knew she would never let me down ".
That is at best a distortion; unless someone also using the callsign ' Seajet ' has one, I have never owned - or wished to own a Sigma 36, anyway I I thought they quickly went to the 38.
My friend did the Fastnet in a Sigma 33, they seemed fast-ish for their time but not all that robust.
The She 36 on the other hand is a truly desirable sailors' boat, but no modern trendy treble aft cabins and will cost A LOT to run properly nowadays.
At Redcliffe YC on the River Frome there is a painting of the She 36 ' Lorelei ' which did so brilliantly saving people in the 1979 Fastnet, inscribed by her owner " I knew she would never let me down ".
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Tranona
Well-Known Member
Re: Sigma 36
Although I agree with many of True-Bit's comments he seems yet another fan of older boats who deludes himself about the way his boat was built.
The Sigma 36 weighs 5.6 tonnes, NOT 7.3 as he states and the hull does not have a "lot of GRP in it". That weight is much the same as my Bav 33, but what he forgets is that his weight includes 2.4 tonnes of deadweight keel making the hull weight 3.4 tonnes. This compares with my Bavaria where the keel is 1.6 tonnes and the hull 4 tonnes.
This difference is common on many modern middle of the road production boats and the Sigma in line with other similar size boats of its time - for example Moody 346, hull 3.6 tonnes, keel 2.1 tonnes.
Maybe interesting True-Brit only posted 7 rimes all in Jan 13 abd this was his last.
Although I agree with many of True-Bit's comments he seems yet another fan of older boats who deludes himself about the way his boat was built.
The Sigma 36 weighs 5.6 tonnes, NOT 7.3 as he states and the hull does not have a "lot of GRP in it". That weight is much the same as my Bav 33, but what he forgets is that his weight includes 2.4 tonnes of deadweight keel making the hull weight 3.4 tonnes. This compares with my Bavaria where the keel is 1.6 tonnes and the hull 4 tonnes.
This difference is common on many modern middle of the road production boats and the Sigma in line with other similar size boats of its time - for example Moody 346, hull 3.6 tonnes, keel 2.1 tonnes.
Maybe interesting True-Brit only posted 7 rimes all in Jan 13 abd this was his last.
Seajet
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Re: Sigma 36
So you're saying you have a much worse ballast ratio ?!
Goodnight,
argue in the morning if you wish...
So you're saying you have a much worse ballast ratio ?!
Goodnight,
argue in the morning if you wish...
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Re: Sigma 36
Once again displaying your inability to understand the English language.
Nowhere was I talking about ballast ratios - in fact rather the opposite. The point I was making VERY CLEARLY was that claims about the "heavy build" of older boats does not always stand up to scrutiny.
It is not about whether something is good or bad but simply about getting the facts right.
So you're saying you have a much worse ballast ratio ?!
Goodnight,
argue in the morning if you wish...
Once again displaying your inability to understand the English language.
Nowhere was I talking about ballast ratios - in fact rather the opposite. The point I was making VERY CLEARLY was that claims about the "heavy build" of older boats does not always stand up to scrutiny.
It is not about whether something is good or bad but simply about getting the facts right.
Resolution
Well-Known Member
Re: Sigma 36
How much of the difference in weight would be due to the increased size of modern designs? These fat modern sterns must use a lot more material than the pinched-in IOR influenced seventies designs.
lukedh
Well-Known Member
Re: Sigma 36
Is there some apples and oranges going on. A cruiser racer might well have a more lightly built hull and greater ballast. That would be good design intended for its purpose. Whereas a more cruiser oriented yacht could with reason be built with a heavier layup to withstand the (ab)use it might get and not need the greater ballast. It may well have greater form stability which might influence the ballasting decisions. Neither is wrong, each meets different design criteria and both will be adequate for their intended purpose.
Is there some apples and oranges going on. A cruiser racer might well have a more lightly built hull and greater ballast. That would be good design intended for its purpose. Whereas a more cruiser oriented yacht could with reason be built with a heavier layup to withstand the (ab)use it might get and not need the greater ballast. It may well have greater form stability which might influence the ballasting decisions. Neither is wrong, each meets different design criteria and both will be adequate for their intended purpose.
scotty123
Well-Known Member
Re: Sigma 36
Are you suggesting, that someone is masquerading as "Seajet" on these forums?
Are you suggesting, that someone is masquerading as "Seajet" on these forums?
Seajet
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Re: Sigma 36
Well there is something funny going on, it is not unusual for people on forums to change things ' fixed that for you ' and this was conveniently years ago so hard to tell the context - but I've certainly never had a Sigma 36 !
Well there is something funny going on, it is not unusual for people on forums to change things ' fixed that for you ' and this was conveniently years ago so hard to tell the context - but I've certainly never had a Sigma 36 !
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Re: Sigma 36
Once again volume is not necessarily related to weight. The wider sterns are mostly empty space. More importantly the big difference over the last 30 orr 40 years is the increasing sophistication of composite layups which allow for greater strength with less material. While MABs (both cruiers and some racers as above) talk about how thick their hulls are and therefore assume greater strength, modern boats are know for greater strength and stiffness with lighter material. The latest vacuum infused hulls of Bavarias like mine are now 250kgs lighter than my more conventional hull.
Of course not all is to do with weight of the mouldings. Recent boats have a lot more gear - bigger engines, more tankage, fridges, more batteries, wheel steering etc than earlier boats.
The fact remains that owing to the need for heavy ballast to keep the hull form upright, the hull weight is typically less as a proportion of total weight.
Once again volume is not necessarily related to weight. The wider sterns are mostly empty space. More importantly the big difference over the last 30 orr 40 years is the increasing sophistication of composite layups which allow for greater strength with less material. While MABs (both cruiers and some racers as above) talk about how thick their hulls are and therefore assume greater strength, modern boats are know for greater strength and stiffness with lighter material. The latest vacuum infused hulls of Bavarias like mine are now 250kgs lighter than my more conventional hull.
Of course not all is to do with weight of the mouldings. Recent boats have a lot more gear - bigger engines, more tankage, fridges, more batteries, wheel steering etc than earlier boats.
The fact remains that owing to the need for heavy ballast to keep the hull form upright, the hull weight is typically less as a proportion of total weight.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Re: Sigma 36
That does not stand up in relation to all modern cruiser racers. A First 35 for example has virtually the same statistics as my Bav 33 - 5500kg overall 1670kg ballast so hull weight 3830kg.
That does not stand up in relation to all modern cruiser racers. A First 35 for example has virtually the same statistics as my Bav 33 - 5500kg overall 1670kg ballast so hull weight 3830kg.
Seajet
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Re: Sigma 36
How about hull shape, form stability, keel design and where the ballast is ?
I expect my Ford Focus doesn't weigh that differently from a Formula One job !
How about hull shape, form stability, keel design and where the ballast is ?
I expect my Ford Focus doesn't weigh that differently from a Formula One job !
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Re: Sigma 36
You seem obsessed with ballast ratios when the topic under discussion is hull weight and strength.
Anyway you are also completely wrong about car weights. The old (proper) 3.5l F1 cars weighed around 600 kg, sometimes in the early 90s a light as 500kgs and in early 60s 400kgs. The latest monsters are around 800kgs.
Your focus is in the range of 1300-1600kgs depending on the model. Sure you can work out that is roughly twice the weight.
How about hull shape, form stability, keel design and where the ballast is ?
I expect my Ford Focus doesn't weigh that differently from a Formula One job !
You seem obsessed with ballast ratios when the topic under discussion is hull weight and strength.
Anyway you are also completely wrong about car weights. The old (proper) 3.5l F1 cars weighed around 600 kg, sometimes in the early 90s a light as 500kgs and in early 60s 400kgs. The latest monsters are around 800kgs.
Your focus is in the range of 1300-1600kgs depending on the model. Sure you can work out that is roughly twice the weight.
Resolution
Well-Known Member
Re: Sigma 36
I bet the driver does........
How about hull shape, form stability, keel design and where the ballast is ?
I expect my Ford Focus doesn't weigh that differently from a Formula One job !
I bet the driver does........
Seajet
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Seajet
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Re: Sigma 36
And you are not mentioning or considering design hull and keel shape or where the ballast is; ( BTW I have worked on Formula One cars a few years ago, my best colleague aircraft fitters started on Formula One cars before moving on to aviation ) - your Bavaria may well weigh the same as Alex Thompson's Hugo Boss job but I don't think they're all that similar.
And you are not mentioning or considering design hull and keel shape or where the ballast is; ( BTW I have worked on Formula One cars a few years ago, my best colleague aircraft fitters started on Formula One cars before moving on to aviation ) - your Bavaria may well weigh the same as Alex Thompson's Hugo Boss job but I don't think they're all that similar.