Sigma 36 vrs She 36

Phideaux

Phideaux

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I've been looking, without success, for a She 36 that I can afford for some time now. I have just come across a Sigma 36 that appears to be a bargain.

Can anyone offer an informed opinion on the Sigma 36 as a boat for short- or single-handed sailing? Obviously it's fractional rig with backstays, but having sailed a Sigma 38 where we just left them permanently back, I'm not sure that this is necessarily a problem. Most lines are led to the cockpit.
 
I know each boat in essence, but haven't actually sailed them.

The Sigma's friends have had weren't exactly over-built, but it's basically a good boat, may be a handful without a big crew.

The She - one word, or rather name sums her up- 'Lorelei'.

Like comparing an Escort Turbo to an Aston Martin ?
 
Seajet said:
I know each boat in essence, but haven't actually sailed them.

The Sigma's friends have had weren't exactly over-built, but it's basically a good boat, may be a handful without a big crew.

The She - one word, or rather name sums her up- 'Lorelei'.

Like comparing an Escort Turbo to an Aston Martin ?
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Yes, I'd love a She 36 but even those that need a considerable sum spent on refurbishment are still outside of my available budget (as is a clapped-out Aston Martin).
 
I helped deliver one once, sailed well enough. (Sigma 36)
As a seaboat wasn't a patch on the Sigma 38 though. According to people I know who've owned them She 36's are extremely good to windward.
 
I have sailed the Sigma 36 and Sigma 362 extensively, but never a She 36. Out of the 2 Sigmas I prefer the Sigma 36. The 362 was OK but a bit lighter than the 36. The mast pumped badly on the earlier 362s and required lower aft shrouds to be added.

The 36 is a relatively stiff boat once healed and the one I sailed on was used extensively single handed by the previous owner. He filled the boat with lead ingots, about 4 marina trolleys worth at 2 ingots deep. I remember this clearly as I had to empty the bars to send them back to him. He stated that he felt the boat was tender without a crew, so used the bars to stiffen her up. I never thought this but he could have because of the fractional rig and big main.

They are strong, fast, seaworthy boats and the one I sailed was fractional rig. I sailed it a lot with my wife to be when we were young, so it was more or less single handed for me as she was not a sailor. I never had any issues with tenderness!

The boat was raced with moderate success on the Clyde and used more or less all year. She handled some pretty foul weather with aplomb dealing with big seas and choppy, steep seas rather effortlessly. Quite a dry boat as well with most big wave slap, going over the bow or down the slot, as opposed to in the cockpit. Typical Marine Projects interior which appeared functional and solid.

There is likely to be age related problems that have come to light over the years so check with Surveyors and the yacht reports. Sailing Today and Yachting World have extensive model reports available to download for about £2 a pop.

I would buy a Sigma 36 if I was going to down size based on what I know about their sailing abilities, however I would look into age related issues as I dont know how they have faired over 25 years.
 
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I've not sailed a Sigma 36, but did look at a few Sigma 38s with a view to buying, and I think the same applies: if you can find a good one, you'll be very pleased with it, but being an old racing boat, many of them are very tired.
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
I have sailed the Sigma 36 and Sigma 362 extensively, but never a She 36. Out of the 2 Sigmas I prefer the Sigma 36. The 362 was OK but a bit lighter than the 36. The mast pumped badly on the earlier 362s and required lower aft shrouds to be added.

The 36 is a relatively stiff boat once healed and the one I sailed on was used extensively single handed by the previous owner. He filled the boat with lead ingots, about 4 marina trolleys worth at 2 ingots deep. I remember this clearly as I had to empty the bars to send them back to him. He stated that he felt the boat was tender without a crew, so used the bars to stiffen her up. I never thought this but he could have because of the fractional rig and big main.

They are strong, fast, seaworthy boats and the one I sailed was fractional rig. I sailed it a lot with my wife to be when we were young, so it was more or less single handed for me as she was not a sailor. I never had any issues with tenderness!

The boat was raced with moderate success on the Clyde and used more or less all year. She handled some pretty foul weather with aplomb dealing with big seas and choppy, steep seas rather effortlessly. Quite a dry boat as well with most big wave slap, going over the bow or down the slot, as opposed to in the cockpit. Typical Marine Projects interior which appeared functional and solid.

There is likely to be age related problems that have come to light over the years so check with Surveyors and the yacht reports. Sailing Today and Yachting World have extensive model reports available to download for about £2 a pop.

I would buy a Sigma 36 if I was going to down size based on what I know about their sailing abilities, however I would look into age related issues as I dont know how they have faired over 25 years.
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Thanks for this, it's most useful. I was considering a UFO34 (not being able to afford a She 36) but those that are within my budget inevitably need considerable work and the feedback from the YBW forums is they are also very wet boats.
 
BlowingOldBoots said:
Here is the link to the YBW boat report for the Sigma 36. Its about £6 to download. Look down the list to find the Sigma 36. I found this service useful to get a good overview when buying my own boat.

http://marinedirectory.ybw.com/reprints/results1.jsp
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Cheers. I've looked at the Yachtnet and Sailboatdata websites to get an initial idea of the Sigma 36 but it would be useful to also get the reprint that you've suggested.
 
I see that Seajet, who posts on every thread is back on this one, you can safely disregard his opinions on Sigmas, (he believes the deck of a 33 can be pulled up by the rig, somebody told him so???) I doubt if he has even seen the chainplates.
I have lusted after the She just like yourself and was still impressed by the last one (Sherpa) that passed through here complete with its Shedek. I have owned a Sigma 33 and a 38 for about 20 years between them and I was very close to buying a 362 before deciding that the 38 was a better boat for not that much more. None were lightly built and both were a good combination of performance and ease of sailing. They have strong rigs, and comprehensive gear to a high standard, they needed that for the racing they did. While I took both out sailing on my own from time to time it was only ever for a day at a time and while I always I enjoyed it, but berthing. mooring, anchoring etc were much easier with my wife on board. Once offshore it is easy and I know 38s that have done enjoyable circumnavigations. The 36 was not one design so may not have the comprehensive gear the dedicated racers had but it will still be of good standard, just more variable. The Commodore of CCC raced a 36 (Enigma) with outstanding results until moving to a 38 a few years ago. Once you own a Sigma you always want another one and therefore good ones sell well.
Frankly I do not think that the She or the Sigmas are the ideal choice for easy single handed sailing but I can understand your urge to have something that does the business as well as looks it, given the choice against a Rival etc. I would have to have a Sigma 36 but as you can see I am extremely prejudiced and would just make the boat do what I wanted.
 
Quandary said:
Frankly I do not think that the She or the Sigmas are the ideal choice for easy single handed sailing .
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A 36 won it's class in the last OSTAR and the race was won overall by a cruising 33, baby sister in effect. The winning boat, British Beagle is now owned by a mate of mine.who races it in the SORC, see http://www.offshoresolo.com/, series. If you are based near the south coast David Hopkins, surveyor, in the Hamble is Mr Sigma and forgotten more about Sigmas than anyone on this forum will know.

Over the years I have had a 38, a 41 and a 362. All top boats. Yes you will find a few things to do, they are now mature boats but David Thomas is one of the all time great designers and these boats are the dogs whatsits.
 
I have raced on a She 36 and would have loved to have owned one, to late now I am afraid. Raced on a Sigma 41 and 33 both good boats but different than a She a little more twitchy shall we say. I have no experience of a Sigma 36 but based on the more positive comments previously posted and my experience of others of the mark I guess that it would suit your purpose. If you asked me which I would prefere to sail single handed it would be the She maybe thats because I sailed more miles in one and know it better. Whichever you choose expect to spend money on refitting though. However the price and availabillity of the two boats really answers your question people that buy these boats don't buy them by accident and thats why She 36s still command high prices and a lot of respect.
 
Phideaux
By coincidence, while in process of leafing through a big heap of old yachting mags before consigning to the skip I came across Sailing Today June 2003 which I must have set aside because it contained a used boat report on the She36, boat called 'Complicity', I am never going to own one now. Perhaps you already have it but in case you want it I will keep it out of the bin for a few days, I think there may be a report on tuning the Sigma 36 there too, by John? Lawrence from Northney who was (hopefully still is) the man when it came to Sigmas.
If you want the mag or just the pages with the report PM me and I will post it on, It breaks my heart to dump this stuff particularly when it is about boats I fancied.
At the time before we bought our Sigma 38 I had been racing in a J35 (fast and wet); an X105 one design was up for sale at very little money, nobody wanted it and the price was dropping, I struggled not to bid on it it looked so so good but massive rig and a deep torpedo keel on a stick??? . Last year I met a guy cruising one, he had a modified keel and roller furling head sail and said he managed fine (normally 2 up) So you can cruise and enjoy anything if you are determined enough. I probably do not regret buying it though.
Just checked, it was John Lawrence in Yachting World Dec. 1992 but was ' tuning the Sigma 362', they are masthead, so not really that relevant to the 36, though the Lawrences had even raced one of those earlier. If you are looking for a Sigma of any kind, John Lawrence at Northney and Nick Stratton at Rhu know the history of nearly every one of them.
 
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Quandary said:
Phideaux
By coincidence, while in process of leafing through a big heap of old yachting mags before consigning to the skip I came across Sailing Today June 2003 which I must have set aside because it contained a used boat report on the She36, boat called 'Complicity', I am never going to own one now. Perhaps you already have it but in case you want it I will keep it out of the bin for a few days, I think there may be a report on tuning the Sigma 36 there too, by John? Lawrence from Northney who was (hopefully still is) the man when it came to Sigmas.
If you want the mag or just the pages with the report PM me and I will post it on, It breaks my heart to dump this stuff particularly when it is about boats I fancied.
At the time before we bought our Sigma 38 I had been racing in a J35 (fast and wet); an X105 one design was up for sale at very little money, nobody wanted it and the price was dropping, I struggled not to bid on it it looked so so good but massive rig and a deep torpedo keel on a stick??? . Last year I met a guy cruising one, he had a modified keel and roller furling head sail and said he managed fine (normally 2 up) So you can cruise and enjoy anything if you are determined enough. I probably do not regret buying it though.
Just checked, it was John Lawrence in Yachting World Dec. 1992 but was ' tuning the Sigma 362', they are masthead, so not really that relevant to the 36, though the Lawrences had even raced one of those earlier. If you are looking for a Sigma of any kind, John Lawrence at Northney and Nick Stratton at Rhu know the history of nearly every one of them.
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PM sent
 
petehb said:
I have raced on a She 36 and would have loved to have owned one, to late now I am afraid. Raced on a Sigma 41 and 33 both good boats but different than a She a little more twitchy shall we say. I have no experience of a Sigma 36 but based on the more positive comments previously posted and my experience of others of the mark I guess that it would suit your purpose. If you asked me which I would prefere to sail single handed it would be the She maybe thats because I sailed more miles in one and know it better. Whichever you choose expect to spend money on refitting though. However the price and availabillity of the two boats really answers your question people that buy these boats don't buy them by accident and thats why She 36s still command high prices and a lot of respect.
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I can remember when a UFO 34 Woz a BIG Boat, how times change.
i now have her big Sister & she is a Fantastic boat & soon to be entering the 14th year of ownership.
many mls singlehanded no probs ( have the sounder alarm on - reminder to ones self :rolleyes:), go 4 it ;)
 
Is this one no good? I would be surprised if you get a Sigma 36 an anything close to this price.
http://www.boatsandoutboards.co.uk/view/PAA18854

I sailed a Sigma 36 for a couple of years including a fastnet and it is not an easy boat to get the best out of. The rig needs some very careful setting up and the boom sweeps very low unless it has been cut short on the leach. I would expect sing handing it to be quite a handful.

Yoda
 
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