Shunting a Proa, the full Video, Balkan Style....

[rael dobkins]

A 10 day cruise up the Black sea, then back down.... A great sea trial with zero problems and huge success.
A fast and simple cruiser that goes well in all conditions, full sail in light air to second reef in a choppy blow...
great boat and how we shunt...
Keep Shunting, Balkan Shipyards

 

[ProDave]

It's a boat Jim, but not as we know it.

That looks like a lot of fiddling about in different places on a flat deck, with no protection, not even a guard wire. Fine in flat conditions but.......

For us mere mortals care to post a bit more of an overview about what this strange boat is all about?

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Rael periodically posts videos showing his proa exploits. They are a kind of boat that I guess almost no-one here knows anything about, but they are still boats and have a 3000 year history, so are interesting to see. I appreciate the occasional videos he posts, even if they are of unusual boats that none of us sails, so keep on shunting & posting, Rael.

 

[Sandro]

A general picture of the boat, seen from a distance, would be welcome.
I had pain trying to understand how the boat and rigging was made by the glimpses of details.

Anyway interesting. Please keep posting.

 

[rael dobkins]

It's a boat Jim, but not as we know it.

That looks like a lot of fiddling about in different places on a flat deck, with no protection, not even a guard wire. Fine in flat conditions but.......

For us mere mortals care to post a bit more of an overview about what this strange boat is all about?

Shunting is not for fun, nor is it fun!
Yet Shunting makes for cheap, simple, fast and very robust vessels! The strongest of multies by far!!
Zero compression, only tension, tension strength is light weight and low cost, compression strength comes at high costs of weight, labour and expensive materials that hurt empty pockets bad....

Shunters discovered the Pacific, they are far from perfect, yet are tough, I have thousands of shunts under my belt, many in a rough Black Sea. I can shunt sitting down too, I can crawl on deck too...
Shunting isn't for everyone, one needs an extreme mindset, but going to sea requires just that. So if Shunting scares you, or climbing up a schooners mast in a Gail seems dangerous, or moving over the huge yard of an Arab Lateen during every tack may seem crazy to you...
Why would u go to sea, u can have the greatest engine, the simplest and best roller Furlings, all can be just right, but a time comes when your decision making is more than everything else, your self control, balance and physique become your life line, old salt all knew it, we just seem to have forgotten it....

Keep Shunting,
Balkan Shipyards

 

[rael dobkins]

Rael periodically posts videos showing his proa exploits. They are a kind of boat that I guess almost no-one here knows anything about, but they are still boats and have a 3000 year history, so are interesting to see. I appreciate the occasional videos he posts, even if they are of unusual boats that none of us sails, so keep on shunting & posting, Rael.

Thanks Angus, the Force is Strong with you my friend.
You put things down like a gentleman, may what u seek always come your way...
Keep tacking,
Balkan Shipyards

 

[rael dobkins]

A general picture of the boat, seen from a distance, would be welcome.
I had pain trying to understand how the boat and rigging was made by the glimpses of details.

Anyway interesting. Please keep posting.

Your wish is our command, got lots of footage of a great 200 mile Black Sea cruise, bay hoping and all conditions sailing...
Great boat, very pleased!
Will edit the vid and share it here...
Keep Shunting
Balkan Shipyards

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Do you design your boats or build from plans?

 

[dunedin]

Is there an English word that explains the term "shunting" that is so often mentioned in here?
I know what a Proa is in terms of type of craft - as in this Proa - Wikipedia

But the term "shunting" to me relates to goods trains in a yard

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Shunting is changing from one tack to another on a proa. It's not tacking or gybing because neither the bow nor the stern go through the wind. Instead the side of the boat goes through the wind and what was the stern becomes the bow on the new tack, & vice-versa. It's a bit odd, but the Polynesians have made it work for thousands of years.

Arranging nav lights must be fun. You'd have to double up everything & switch them over on each shunt like the double ended ferries do.

 

[rael dobkins]

Do you design your boats or build from plans?

Balkan style, from Balkan Shipyards Angus.
It's been a long rough road... 13 years and 4 proas. My first one landed me on the rocks on the second sail...
A 3.5 year build, and all I had went down the drain... Depression almost killed me!

The only way to save my poor sole was to build the second one... Fear and depression can break a man, getting back up and starting all over will toughen one.
The second one small, pretty fast, but no volume, plumb bows, no rocker, no flare, a big Oceanic Lateen that frightened the daylight out of me...

Then came the third, "Make O'Break" the best Proa in the world, we went far with that 15 footer, camped on beaches and just kept going... that boat saved my life.
Then Crystal Clear was built, the same reefable, shunting, safe Junk rig that I designed for "Make O'Break". The same long ama, rocker, flare and bow rake...

A good boat! Proas are amazing, very strong and kind, they have an easy motion in waves, I have been out in F6's with my small ones many times, here the waves are like walls! An F6 here is getting ugly, I sailed a fare share in my life, oceans are very different to here... Shunting has always been pretty easy, never felt any danger, then again, I'm a roofer, we just live a life where falling is forbidden... We have monkey skills, I could fall, yet I could get hit by a drunk bus driver too... The same way I don't think about the one, I don't waste my time on the other...

It took a long time, endless labour and what ever money I had to finally get it right, she's not perfect, I wish some things were different on her, but it's too late and I'm too tired.
So we're going shunting! as is!! I will learn to tolerate her, yet she can do what ever she wants, but I'm sure she will make the right choice....

Because She's "Crystal Clear...."

Keep shunting man
Balkan Shipyards

 

[dunedin]

Shunting is changing from one tack to another on a proa. It's not tacking or gybing because neither the bow nor the stern go through the wind. Instead the side of the boat goes through the wind and what was the stern becomes the bow on the new tack, & vice-versa. It's a bit odd, but the Polynesians have made it work for thousands of years.

Arranging nav lights must be fun. You'd have to double up everything & switch them over on each shunt like the double ended ferries do.

Thanks, hadn't come across that term before - though I do remember the famous proa Cheers which was quite amazing when it finished 3rd in the OSTAR - serious seamanship Cheers (proa) - Wikipedia

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Shunting...

 

[alahol2]

So where's the rudder? Are there two of them?

 

[rael dobkins]

So where's the rudder? Are there two of them?

Most modern Proas have 2 rudders, the front one is in it's raised position while the back one steers the boat.
The traditional ones had a steering oar which would be carried over to the new stern.
Many small Proas will steer and sail rudderless, by only trimming the sail and moving weight for and aft...

Keep Shunting,
Balkan Shipyards

 

[Sandro]

Thank you very much!

Now I see.



But I have a question:

Sailing on one tack the luff of he sail exits the A frame downwind of the movable mast, in the present bow direction.

When you shunt, A frame and sail as a whole, turn around the foot of the fixed mast through an angle between 90° and 180°.

If I don’t mistake now the luff of the sail exits the A frame UPWIND of the movable mast, in the present STERN direction and the sail can not be trimmed for the new tack because of the fixed footed mast being in the way.

I can’t understand how before and after the shunt the sail positions can be symmetric (as they surely should be and are).



Where is the bug in my thinking?

 

[ProDave]

I want to know how you sail one downwind?

 

[rael dobkins]

Thank you very much!

Now I see.



But I have a question:

Sailing on one tack the luff of he sail exits the A frame downwind of the movable mast, in the present bow direction.

When you shunt, A frame and sail as a whole, turn around the foot of the fixed mast through an angle between 90° and 180°.

If I don’t mistake now the luff of the sail exits the A frame UPWIND of the movable mast, in the present STERN direction and the sail can not be trimmed for the new tack because of the fixed footed mast being in the way.

I can’t understand how before and after the shunt the sail positions can be symmetric (as they surely should be and are).



Where is the bug in my thinking?

In the video below, Jenia films me shunting from the beach, then I show the shunt onboard.
The fixed mast never gets in the way, it's at mid ship and more to windward, it's closer to the 'AmA' (the small canoe). The mast holding the sail is more down wind, more to the side, it's on the Vaka's (big canoe) gunnel, all the way to leeward.

Shunters don't tack, their sail is always above the sea, when running it's 90 degrees to the boat, when sailing to windward you sheet in till it's above the gunnel. when going the other way it's the same, just the sail is on the other side of the boat, when running it's 90 degrees to the boat, when sheeted in again it's over the gunnel. The sail never tacks and comes between the hulls, like a catamaran, it works from the boat to over the sea.

Small hull is always to windward! these craft are the only ones that sail with the same side always to the wind.

 

[rael dobkins]

I want to know how you sail one downwind?

Most Proas just sheet out and steer, some have aggressive weather helm, some are better....
My rig can easily be set between the hulls and she flies downwind rudderless all alone

Keep Shunting, Balkan Shipyards

 

[Sandro]

Thank you for the video. All is clear to me now. My error: I thought that the smaller hull (aka?) was downwind.
Good shunting.