Should Sailing Involve Physical Effort and some Discomfort?

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Major_Clanger said:
No, you're not mad; I'm with you almost all the way except that I don't have a spray hood (and it's a very wet boat) and still have various heads'ls rather than a furler.

Modern aids to navigation, physical effort and creature comforts are all great, but, for me at least, they detract from one of the reasons I go sailing. Namely a desire to be with, and work with nature. That desire may be in my subconscious but it's there. Spray hoods, stack packs, hydraulic steering and winches, nav screens everywhere, alarms... Surely they partly remove us from that primeval desire that's in most of us? In the case of hydraulics too they can be a real hindrance as they take away 'feel'.

I'm not some hair-shirt loon (others may disagree), and I have benefited from all manner of gadgets when I sailed for a living, but like the OP, I like to experience the whole shebang and feel at one with the boat as much as I can.

I don't think I've explained myself very well, but I understand it!
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I'm with you in spirit and my best memories of sailing often involve spray and struggling with a sail or simply the feel of being out in the open for so long. But I realise that over the years I have sought to remove any effort or discomfort, almost deliberately to the point of tedium for all normal sailing.

So it's everything from fenders tied at the bottom together so I can lift 10 fenders for seagoing in a few seconds from the cockpit, to autohelm on the whole time from leaving a narrow pontoon to tieing up in the next harbour. And the philosophy is based on pushing the limit of our sailing because if a Force 6 for two people is easy and comfortable for days on end then we are well set up to enjoy a 7 or 8, as well as get through a 9 without being exhausted (well that's my theory).

In practice it does mean we are sailing further and our mutual ambitions (my wife never reefs or hoists anything but does nearly everything else) means we can plan and carry out more interesting trips in a bigger range of weather. It also means our occasional non-sailing guests come back.
 
I see no reason to suffer purposely, there is no one watching to give me prizes for masochism. I walk in the mountains and love winter mountaineering and dress as warmly as I can for both safety and comfort. The aim is to reach the ridge or summit and see a different world not to get frostbite or hypothermia. Similarly sailing. The aim is to be away from my workaday world and visit new places. So a good galley, reasonable shelter and the best foul weather gear I can justify. Of course there is discomfort. Its no fun taking in the anchor or reefing as the boat lurches like a bronco but provision for a chance to rest and recover with a cuppa minimises the strain. Having got now a pilot house boat I look forward to more late autumn excursions and though I admit she does not sail as well as our other boat the Navigator is happier thus so am I. More adventures not less as I age, from that decision.
 
It's interesting, how we pick and choose between our likes, which are enjoyable (yet often avoidable) physical effort, and other really wretched aspects, which might arguably be at the core of the pure sailing experience.

I never want a plotter, when I have a cruiser. I spend every wakeful indoor hour studying screens at work and home (like now!), and the idea of reducing navigation - locating lights and seamarks on lovely big Admiralty charts at a wooden table, lit by an oil lamp...the idea of that scene being made as conveniently, electronically anodyne as online shopping or a day at work, is very dull.

I even looked into whether oil lamps are possible for navigation. The impression I got was that it can be done, brightly enough not to fall short of the law, but the mess and bother and finite endurance of the oil tank makes it too much like hard work...

...so I'm vacillating, because although oil lamps are rich with hands-on flavourful tradition, it's a bit too involving.

Having slowly pulled up a few anchors by hand, I find it depressing that lots of good cruising boats aren't equipped with equally good kit for anchor-handling. The fact that I'd rather hand-crank an anchor up, than pay to share the atmosphere of a marina, might make me seem the type who prefers to hoist headsails, but I will always want a roller-furler...

...of course I'd probably need a remotely operated electric windlass for singlehanding convenience, but I'd sooner haul it up by hand than stay in a marina. Is that what's called a paradox?

Elecglitch said:
...since sailing is voluntary, effort or expenditure to reduce the level of discomfiture is, of course, up to the participant. It's a payoff, but if you can't be bothered/afford to reduce the discomfort, you can of course make yourself feel better by claiming it's 'proper sailing' and the others are just 'big girl's blouses'.
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That's well-phrased and incisive, Elecglitch. Once I've bought a boat with an outside and an inside helm, I'll feel pity, not conceit, when I encounter grimacing open-cockpit crews in polar attire, raindrops on noses on a raw early season day. They may or may not like it, but they've paid, and are thus committed.

Or, they ought to be committed. ;)
 
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Spanish boat came into the harbour an dropped his anchour,five minutes later he hauled it up and moved to another spot and dropped the anchour,ten minutes later he upped anchour and motored out the hourbour,with no one on deck at anytime whilst Iwas taking a breather after our second attempt at anchoring with manual windlass...
 
Wansworth said:
Spanish boat came into the harbour an dropped his anchour,five minutes later he hauled it up and moved to another spot and dropped the anchour,ten minutes later he upped anchour and motored out the hourbour,with no one on deck at anytime whilst Iwas taking a breather after our second attempt at anchoring with manual windlass...
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However when his windlass fails he is a busted flush, you will be hand cranking into your dotage.
Plus it saves on gymnasium subscriptions.
 
I had a friend, back in the seventies, Ralf Rutkowsky, a German Master Mariner who when I knew him was a salvage master with Bugsier, and a very fine man indeed. Ralf disapproved of wheelhouses on merchant ships, and thought that seamanship had taken a giant step backwards when they came in. What he would have thought of officers sitting in comfy chairs in air conditioning and staring at screens all watch, I hate to think.

In fairness, Ralf had been twice torpedoed by British submarines on the Narvik run. An ore carrier goes down awfully fast...
 
This whole thread was summed up by Douglas Adams many years before it was written.

"anything that gets invented after you’re thirty is against the natural order of things and the beginning of the end of civilization as we know it"
 
Minn said:
I had a friend, back in the seventies, Ralf Rutkowsky, a German Master Mariner who when I knew him was a salvage master with Bugsier, and a very fine man indeed. Ralf disapproved of wheelhouses on merchant ships, and thought that seamanship had taken a giant step backwards when they came in. What he would have thought of officers sitting in comfy chairs in air conditioning and staring at screens all watch, I hate to think.

In fairness, Ralf had been twice torpedoed by British submarines on the Narvik run. An ore carrier goes down awfully fast...
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You have a good way with words.
 
Elecglitch said:
This whole thread was summed up by Douglas Adams many years before it was written.

"anything that gets invented after you’re thirty is against the natural order of things and the beginning of the end of civilization as we know it"
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Can't say I agree with that. GPS, AIS, Dynema, Vectran and laminate sailcloths, Goretex foul weather gear, etc. All fall into that category and are welcome on my boat.
 
I have been resisting posting in this thread.

When I started sailing in 1965, my parents had just bought a brand new boat - a Kingfisher 30. One of those new fangled fiberglass boats. We did not know how to sail, but my father had been a Coastal Command pilot navigator in latter part of WWII, so navigation was not a problem. The boat for its time was quite well equipped with a petrol engine, pumped fresh water in the galley, heads and aft cabin, there was also a sea water pump in the galley. We had a cooker with two burners, a grill and an oven. Electric lights, There was a loo compartment that could be the width of the boat. Electronics included a Seafarer echo sounder and a log, plus a Sailor radio set. The compass could be removed, but it had been swung for accuracy, plus a hand bearing compass. Well, within 3 months we had learned the basics of sailing and then had a 4 week holiday sailing from the Medway to Torquay and back. Things I can remember well include the water run in the dinghy to fill the water tank with numerous cans, the idea of a hose to fill the tank would have been wonderful. Frequently we moored against fishing boats or a wall with a ladder to get ashore or used a mooring buoy or anchored. There were no marinas except Berthon.

Over the years I have experienced improvements to yachts and some high levels of luxury including a Moody Eclipse 43 deck saloon. Surprisingly we rarely used the interior steering position.

Today I believe in going sailing rather than visiting places. So I am happy to sometimes not to go ashore and tie up just to get some sleep. Many essential mod cons for others are still missing from my boat, through choice as I believe in keeping as many things as simple as possible. So there is still foot pumped cold water, so no taps or hot water. There is a 12V/mains cool box for food, but it is too small. The biggest luxury is the Ebersparcher heater, when it works! The main instruments are B&G Network from 1996 and they still work fine. I have added a new auto pilot as I singlehand mostly, it could be linked to the chart plotter but I have not bothered. My recent trip to the Solent and over to France was unusual as I never set any way points on the plotter and only estimated the course I should steer. The old Phillips GPS gave a speed over the ground and direction which was sufficient to work with. The chart plotter was only used to increase the accuracy of my mental position reckoning. Except crossing from the Needles to Cherbourg at night, the coast was always in view so I used the Mk1 eyeball all the time. Sails are recent in Vectran with a fully battened main, plus an old spinnaker from 1996. The genoa is furling and I have a stack pack for the main. All the winches are over sized self tailers so I can just use one hand in virtually all conditions. The sprayhood never gets folded down. The one safety device I recommend everyone should have is a PLB, it would give me a strong chance of recovery in an emergency.

So I like to use quite a lot of physical effort whist sailing as I am constantly trimming the sails to maximise performance. Many of my sailing days can be 14 to 15 hours as I like sailing distances in excess of 60 miles, my longest recently was 110 miles before stopping. The way my boat is set up works for me and feel there is little discomfort in not having things like a shower onboard. My choices would not suit many people, especially most wives, but thankfully we are all different and make choices according to the type of sailing we prefer to do. Personally I find pottering around the Solent a little boring and very crowded, how lots of you put up with I do not know.
 
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One of the things that we used to keep on board was a sense of humour. What has been so entertaining in this thread is how seriously some people have been taking it, when it was really, as far as I can see, just an attempt to give us old folk a chance to wind up those newer to the game. In this respect it has worked almost too well. Now that I can sail comfortably, do I appreciate what I have more because of the many years of struggle, and will the new generation, many but not all who have bypassed this stage, be able to look back with the same satisfaction? I tend to believe this unprovable assertion.
 
Hopefully not..... however in the last year we've had several pontoon collisions, a pinned arm, a near grounding and a gas explosion and fire..... discomfort is becoming a close friend, one of those annoying ones that when they walk in, everyone says, oh no not you!
 
Corribee72 said:
Hopefully not..... however in the last year we've had several pontoon collisions, a pinned arm, a near grounding and a gas explosion and fire..... discomfort is becoming a close friend, one of those annoying ones that when they walk in, everyone says, oh no not you!
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Ah, the learning curve you are showing perfectly how it works. Just remember that experience is something gained whilst doing something else. So next year you should not repeat those mishaps.
 
Looking back a bit on events where things could have been more comfortable.. Going across the Thames estuary from the Crouch to Medway for the race week. We ran into a sandbank at after midnight on a broadreach. Either a mark was missing or we really scewed up (we are certain the first). Any way, we were being driven onto the bank and could not turn the boat to try and tack off. It was a 27ft hard chine design with a short bulb keel and a plate, 3/6ft draft. My brother and I went over the side and managed to turn her, so we tacked out of the situation. I spent the next hour on the bow looking for nav marks or signs of shallows...Water up to my knees, but not cold. Uncomfortable? Discomfort? Certainly. But what one did.
One other.. On route from Vilamoura to Gib: Wind not favourable and we found ourselves very tired ( two on a 36ft classic sloop) off Cap Trafalgar. Needing to find a safe haven, we tacked inside the rocks off the point in pitch dark to get into Barbate de Franco for a rest.
A few years later, the skipper phoned me up and wanted me to confirm this, as someone had told him that it was not possible. No prob, as it was still VERY fresh in my mind, listening for the surf before tacking and kicking each other to stay awake. Circa '83?
It was certainly uncomfortable and a little scary, but that was then and what one expected. Now GPS etc take quite a lot out of it.
It is just different.
 
"There are so many pleasant things about the sea life that one can put up with some discomforts."
Captain Josselyn in "Down Easter Captain"
 
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