Neeves
Well-Known Member
For the sceptics - and its made in China.
But then aren't they all, excepting......Knox (Scotland), Excel (Australia), Fortress (USA), Viking (Ukraine), Supreme (New Zealand).....quite a long list.
Jonathan
Should I swap to a smaller / 3rd gen anchor?
- Thread starter RogerFoxTerrier
- Start date
For the sceptics - and its made in China.
But then aren't they all, excepting......Knox (Scotland), Excel (Australia), Fortress (USA), Viking (Ukraine), Supreme (New Zealand).....quite a long list.
Jonathan
Neeves
Well-Known Member
Ignoring those who have the attention span of a sparrow
I stand to be corrected but Knox have pretty decent welds
RogerFoxTerrier
Well-Known Member
My clever son has 3d printed a baby Rocna, so I can use this as art, and actually get the real one wet!
RogerFoxTerrier
Well-Known Member
Well if anyone's interested, the new Rocna 6kg is fantastic! It digs in straight away and I have my first night at anchor at the weekend. It held superbly (very benign conditions to be fair) and had no problem with two turns of the tide. I didn't think I'd sleep a wink, but slept like a baby! Worth every penny.
lustyd
Well-Known Member
Glad it worked for you, you’ll never look back. A good anchor is worth its weight in gold!
ylop
Well-Known Member
Well you put half the words in bold. If you read the rest of the sentence there’s an “except” in there. If that limitation means he doesn’t anchor when he could or risks injury in doing so an investment in a new anchor might seem wise.
A beer from your own fridge on anchor is a lot cheaper - save your beer tokens (from both the bar and the marina) for a week long cruise and the anchor probably pays for itself!
Kwik Decision
Well-Known Member
Excellent news. We got our Rocna 11 yrs ago now, and, having used it 5 - 10 nights per year (and lots of lunch stops) the cost per night is negligible.
laika
Well-Known Member
With the forum’s dates apparently messed up I hope I’m not replying to a super old thread. Good to see the OP is pleased with their new anchor but here’s why I’m currently using an 11Kg cqr with a 12m boat.
My 20Kg oversized plastimo cqr copy literally fell apart. Fortunately not while it was holding on to the boat. I temporarily used the 11Kg cqr which I assume originally came with the boat. I then tried building a cardboard template of a spade. It didn’t fit the bow roller. Then I tried a mantus borrowed from a chandler. Again, didn’t fit the westerly bow roller. Then bought an original 20Kg cqr from eBay. Unfortunately that big shackle won’t fit through my bow roller and I’m contemplating grinding it off.
But meantime… I’ve been using the little cqr which is the “correct” size for the boat. It sets just fine in south cost mud. I was nervous at first but have come to realise that manufacturers aren’t going to underspecify sizes. That 11Kg cqr will hold my 12m boat in south coast mud just fine. Just as fine as any new gen anchor. But the cqr will fit on my westerly bow roller which the others won’t.
Were I going to exotic places with hard packed sand I might think differently but for now I’m not getting the bow roller extended with consequent potential marina cost hikes
zoidberg
Well-Known Member
You will have occasion to ship and deploy a different anchor-type.
I won't detail all the arguments - they are well documented elsewhere in these forums - but imho your best 'secondary' bet is a Fortress Fx-16 or Fx-23, which you'll carry 'disassembled' in its carpeting bag.... as I do. Prepping ready for use can take all of 2 minutes....
These come up for sale quite regularly here and via eBay/Facebook Groups at really very attractive prices - usually 'stored but not used'.
laika
Well-Known Member
If I didn’t already have a danforth in the locker yes I’d certainly get myself a fortress because it’s good to have a second anchor, especially one which compliments the type of the primary. However while in other countries and with differed seabeds and conditions I’ve used a variety of anchors and lines to objects ashore, in the English Channel where we have a lot of nice mud and are rarely far from shelter if it’s really going to blow, the cqr has been all I’ve really needed. Yes there have been times when I’ve needed to “go round again”, particularly with weedy bottoms but not enough to be a deal breaker.
I don’t dispute that modern anchors perform better in tests with a wider variety of seabeds, just saying that for my (and I suspect many of our) needs where I sail the cqr has been quite “good enough” and avoids me having to get significant alterations made to the bow roller.
Neeves
Well-Known Member
I can buy a new Rocna, almost, anywhere. Strangely I can buy a new Fortress (and many other anchors) anywhere.
Can anyone advise where I can buy a new, unused, swivel not worn, original shackle, original galvanising ,,,,,,,, CQR.?
The CQR to the original design has not been made for years.
Jonathan
Neeves
Well-Known Member
The CQR was developed and released in the late 1930s, early 1940s. I don't criticise, in any way, the design. It was a revelation.
Since then the Spitfire, the 'V' bomber fleet, radio valves, telegrams, postage stamps and Fishermans anchors have ben retired
We now have fibre glass, carbon fibre, dyneema, GPS, Epirbs, widely available and cheap welding, Classification Socities defining a whole host of anchors at least twice as good as a CQR and the internet that allows anyone to access the fullest of technical (and less technical) analysis.
Focussing : we have easily available high tensile steels, computer aided design and manufacture, new methods of galvanising, a more questioning customer base and better methods of evaluation. We have PBO and Panope - neither of whom would put a CQR on a pedestal.
If you want to laud nostalgia, go for an MG, or even a Morgan - don't embarrass - the CQR has had its day - and you cannot buy one to the original design anyway.
Jonathan
laika
Well-Known Member
This thread is about whether it's worth replacing the CQR you already have, not about buying a new one. My contention is that *for me* (and this forum is about soliciting diverse opinions) and the conditions in which I (and many others here) sail, I don't think the upgrade and associated steelwork is worth it because the existing CQR is "good enough". I don't think anyone is suggesting CQRs are a "better" design than modern anchors. When I say a modern anchor won't fit on my old westerly bow roller, I'm hoping you won't tell me that I'm embarrassing myself by not upgrading to a far more efficient modern beneteau.
Neeves
Well-Known Member
Each to their own.
Cars without seat belts were 'good enough'
Now I have grandchildren and what was good enough for the kids does not cut the mustard, in 2025, for the grandkids. A Kobra is, in my personal and limited opinion, better than a CQR and I would go out of my way to fit a Kobra rather than a CQR. If the genuine CQR, I have an original, slightly worn, is good enough then the Kobra is more than good enough - have you tried one on your bow roller?
I don't rant about the CQR because though it might be 'good enough' I know there is better and many are much better and when it involves the grandkids 'good enough' is not enough. I don't mind, I would encourage, debate on what is best - but best should involve cost - and a Kobra combines excellence and economy. Whether Kobra fits is another matter but I cannot believe that one from a Spade, Rocna, Epsilon, Knox, Excel, Mantus, Viking, Odin et al would not fit AND cut the mustard.
Frankly if 'whatever' was 'good enough' but failed - I'd never forgive myself.
Now..... if you have the time and the space is available in the forum I can tell all about acceptable anchors - and I would have no need to mention CQRs.
To me discussions on yachts with CQRs are a bit like discussions supporting cars without seatbelts. Each to their own.
Knowing what we know now seatbelts would not invoke a discussion, now no-one would 'invent' a CQR.
Jonathan
Cars without seat belts were 'good enough'
Now I have grandchildren and what was good enough for the kids does not cut the mustard, in 2025, for the grandkids. A Kobra is, in my personal and limited opinion, better than a CQR and I would go out of my way to fit a Kobra rather than a CQR. If the genuine CQR, I have an original, slightly worn, is good enough then the Kobra is more than good enough - have you tried one on your bow roller?
I don't rant about the CQR because though it might be 'good enough' I know there is better and many are much better and when it involves the grandkids 'good enough' is not enough. I don't mind, I would encourage, debate on what is best - but best should involve cost - and a Kobra combines excellence and economy. Whether Kobra fits is another matter but I cannot believe that one from a Spade, Rocna, Epsilon, Knox, Excel, Mantus, Viking, Odin et al would not fit AND cut the mustard.
Frankly if 'whatever' was 'good enough' but failed - I'd never forgive myself.
Now..... if you have the time and the space is available in the forum I can tell all about acceptable anchors - and I would have no need to mention CQRs.
To me discussions on yachts with CQRs are a bit like discussions supporting cars without seatbelts. Each to their own.
Knowing what we know now seatbelts would not invoke a discussion, now no-one would 'invent' a CQR.
Jonathan
RogerFoxTerrier
Well-Known Member
And, after 39 years of driving, I finally experienced the value of a seat belt when someone pulled out directly in front of me on a main road last week...
vyv_cox
Well-Known Member
I bought my first cruising boat in 1989, a 27 ft Challenger built in France. It came with a CQR, probably 25 lb. We owned that boat for three seasons and cruised it widely from Anglesey, to Cardigan Bay, IOM, Ireland and Scotland. Our club, NWVYC, was very active, sailing to anchorages almost every weekend and we enthusiastically joined in.
We replaced that boat with a GK29, also equipped with a CQR, which we changed for a Delta after about two years. Throughout those five years I do not recall ever dragging or having particular difficulty in getting the anchor to set.
Although I would not go back to one now I fully agree that for UK coastal cruising a CQR in good condition is 'good enough'.
We replaced that boat with a GK29, also equipped with a CQR, which we changed for a Delta after about two years. Throughout those five years I do not recall ever dragging or having particular difficulty in getting the anchor to set.
Although I would not go back to one now I fully agree that for UK coastal cruising a CQR in good condition is 'good enough'.
doug748
Well-Known Member
Price of some of them they ought to be.
Neeves
Well-Known Member
A 100% safety record is noteworthy - until its 99%.
The cost of increasing the safety factor, in terms of this thread..... 'minimising the risk of anchor failure' .....( in Sterling terms) is simply peanuts.
The CQR was developed at least 95 years ago (and the fact it is still used and 'supported' is a credit to the inventor). Delta was developed 40 years ago but has the same performance criteria High Holding Power. as the CQR Again the team of people who developed Delta - all credit to them.
It took years before the next step Spade, eventually rated Super High Holding Power hit the chandlery shelves. A really significant step forward and the performance increase recognised and copied by Peter Smith (but Spade seldom lauded by the boating public)
We now have an extensive list of Super High Holding Power anchors - they will develop twice the hold of the CQR/Delta and Bruce - at a cost - but will develop that 2 times hold with minimal skill, deploy them and these SHHP anchors almost set and develop hold 'by themselves' and though they might drag - its not commonplace
If hold, ease of use and reliability is a measure of anchor excellence - then why people still use CQRs or Deltas is a mystery - yes 'good enough' (99% of the time) - just like seatbelts (complete waste of money)
But when I see someone trying to deploy and set a Delta, or CQR - I shudder, I go to help them. I then move so that we are not down wind and I think, very possibly unkindly - how selfish. Your yacht is worth Stg50,000 and you deny investment in a stg400 anchor (and when the chips are down - you are a liability
Beggars belief but then they are not members of YBW....
Seat belts are demanded, now airbags - how long before collision avoidance devices are legislated? Yet most of us never 'use' their seatbelt, we don't 'really' need a spare tyre, we don't actually need insurance (for our car or boat),, passenger aircraft really don't need lifejackets or rafts, how often are lifeboats on cruise ships used, until - these devises are needed.
What other safety device for any activity has remained unchanged and accepted for so long? Cork lifejackets were good enough, open life rafts were good enough, now EPIRBs are legislated. Interestingly we accept EPIRBs - but not modern anchors. If we race we accept Cat 1 or Cat 3 requirements......
Jonathan