Should I seal the entire underside of my genoa track?

[demonboy]

I'm using butyl tape to seal the bolt holes of my genoa track, but I'm wondering if I should actually bed the entire underside with tape. Previously the track sat on a teak deck and wasn't sealed anywhere except through the bolts. Bear in mind for every bolt hole there is another hole next to it for the car to lock into.

Any thoughts?

 

[vyv_cox]

After several years of leaving my teak toerails unvarnished the teak had deteriorated so much that I have decided to resume varnishing them, now using Woodskin. I had some stainless steel rubbing strips on the teak and after removing them for the varnishing operation I realised that the wood beneath was in even worse condition than all the rest. So after varnishing throughout I filled the rubbing strips with Sikaflex before screwing them back on.

My genoa track has been screwed to my grp deck for 30 years, no sign of sealant but I assume there must be some on the screw threads.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

personally I would.... it gives a much larger area of protection for the bolt holes... I had a bolt on my genoa track leaking into the boat, and it was an absolute pig to remove (partially in my case, as they were bolted onto a gunwhale that was 20cm high, so the bolts were 25cm long)... I wouldn't want to repeat that task!

 

[sailorman]

I'm using butyl tape to seal the bolt holes of my genoa track, but I'm wondering if I should actually bed the entire underside with tape. Previously the track sat on a teak deck and wasn't sealed anywhere except through the bolts. Bear in mind for every bolt hole there is another hole next to it for the car to lock into.

Any thoughts?

if not fully bedded there is the possibility of corrosion i would prefer sika to butyl tape as the tape doesnt compress well.

 

[michael_w]

Problem with butyl tape is it will ooze for evermore. It's been coming out of the hull/deck join on my boat for 26 years...

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I used a 3M sealant on my genoa track and holes that does not go rock hard.(apologies I havn't the product code I used),

this table may help..... http://solutions.3m.co.uk/wps/porta...pair/GeneralBoatRepairs/SealantAdhesiveGuide/

I talked to a grp boat builder and he recommended it over and above Sika products.

 

[rhumlady]

On bare GRP I would or you will end up with blisters in the gelcoat. Ever fitting I have removed where there was no sealant there were blisters

 

[demonboy]

Thanks for the replies. The reason for asking was a) limited supply of butyl and b) it means having to take up the stay-sail track, which I've already bedded down. Did half the starboard fittings yesterday and it looks like we have plenty of tape left, so we'll bed the entire thing.

 

[Gordonmc]

Take a look at the Livaboard forum and Espar refit videos.
The last one had a sequence about bedding down a track using butyl.
It may be useful.

 

[demonboy]

Take a look at the Livaboard forum and Espar refit videos.
The last one had a sequence about bedding down a track using butyl.
It may be useful.

You mean my videos?

 

[vyv_cox]

Take a look at the Livaboard forum and Espar refit videos.
The last one had a sequence about bedding down a track using butyl.
It may be useful.

He's the man asking the question!

 

[demonboy]

Take a look at the Livaboard forum and Espar refit videos.
The last one had a sequence about bedding down a track using butyl.
It may be useful.

Seriously though, that was the first staysail track we did and it was only after filming that sequence that I thought about bedding the entire track. Needless to say we did the starboard genoa track today. Took all morning but it appears to have worked well. I will record the port genoa track as an update.

 

[Sarnia]

I used a 3M sealant on my genoa track and holes that does not go rock hard.(apologies I havn't the product code I used),

this table may help..... http://solutions.3m.co.uk/wps/porta...pair/GeneralBoatRepairs/SealantAdhesiveGuide/

I talked to a grp boat builder and he recommended it over and above Sika products.

Thanks for the link, very useful, but not quite sure how the second part of the recommended usage using 'X' or 'XX' refers to which product, I must be missing something.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Looked at the video (great!) and although seemingly simple to apply, the main long term problem I envisage with butyl tape, is that it is not an adhesive/sealant.

It may seal for a period of time but water ingress and tracking may become inevitable passed fittings and fixtures.

A proven adhesive/sealant which stays flexible, is in my humble opinion, the way to go.

S.

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

Thanks for the link, very useful, but not quite sure how the second part of the recommended usage using 'X' or 'XX' refers to which product, I must be missing something.

I'm not sure either.

I've checked and I used 3M5200FC and after three years it is still proving very good for s.s genoa track bolted to GRP deck and other deck fittings.

S.

 

[michael_w]

3m's 5200; the daddy of all sealants. Only problem is you will never be able to remove whatever it is you've stuck down without damage and a lot of bad language!

 

[demonboy]

3m's 5200; the daddy of all sealants. Only problem is you will never be able to remove whatever it is you've stuck down without damage and a lot of bad language!

I strongly recommend that you do not use 3M 5200 (also known as Satan's Glue). The only way to remove fittings used with this stuff is to rip out the deck around it. You might benefit from a good, strong seal in the short term, but when it comes to removing that fitting five years down the line, you'll regret ever using it. I posted up a chart on sealants a few weeks ago (it was an independent comparison put together by an American sail magazine, i.e. not produced by 3M - link here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25233603/ybw/sealant-table.gif), and 5200 fell into the 'least appropriate for re-bedding deck fittings' category.

Regarding adhesive sealants, deck fittings, especially genoa tracks, are put under a lot of strain and are therefore subject to movement. If a fitting bedded with an adhesive sealant moves it can break the seal. Butyl tape, on the other hand, moves with the movement of the fitting, and never dries. From what I have read on the subject it is a proven method used for many years but because it's more labour-intensive boat manufacturers moved over to tubes of polyurethane. I was recommended a butyl-based sealant (Arbomast) for my deck hatches and it worked a treat. Three years later I had to take them off for our refit and removing them was a synch since there was no adhesion. They never leaked. Oyster used Arbomast for our chain-plates, which were bedded 25 years ago. When I removed them a couple of months ago the butyl was still malleable.

There is a great article, with photographs, on the subject here: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/63554-bedding-deck-hardware-butyl-tape.html

 

[BruceDanforth]

You can dissolve 5200 with Marine Formula which sort of turns it to snot. Works on sikaflex too and the two pack stuff in boat windows.

I strongly recommend that you do not use 3M 5200 (also known as Satan's Glue). The only way to remove fittings used with this stuff is to rip out the deck around it. You might benefit from a good, strong seal in the short term, but when it comes to removing that fitting five years down the line, you'll regret ever using it. I posted up a chart on sealants a few weeks ago (it was an independent comparison put together by an American sail magazine, i.e. not produced by 3M - link here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25233603/ybw/sealant-table.gif), and 5200 fell into the 'least appropriate for re-bedding deck fittings' category.

Regarding adhesive sealants, deck fittings, especially genoa tracks, are put under a lot of strain and are therefore subject to movement. If a fitting bedded with an adhesive sealant moves it can break the seal. Butyl tape, on the other hand, moves with the movement of the fitting, and never dries. From what I have read on the subject it is a proven method used for many years but because it's more labour-intensive boat manufacturers moved over to tubes of polyurethane. I was recommended a butyl-based sealant (Arbomast) for my deck hatches and it worked a treat. Three years later I had to take them off for our refit and removing them was a synch since there was no adhesion. They never leaked. Oyster used Arbomast for our chain-plates, which were bedded 25 years ago. When I removed them a couple of months ago the butyl was still malleable.

There is a great article, with photographs, on the subject here: http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/63554-bedding-deck-hardware-butyl-tape.html

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

You can dissolve 5200 with Marine Formula which sort of turns it to snot. Works on sikaflex too and the two pack stuff in boat windows.

seems I may have to get some of that in about 10-15 years time when all wears out. Mind you, at 85 I'm not sure it will be my worry

S

 

[demonboy]

You can dissolve 5200 with Marine Formula which sort of turns it to snot. Works on sikaflex too and the two pack stuff in boat windows.

Why go to the trouble when you can use an easy-to-remove product like butyl? All you're looking for in a deck fitting is waterproofness and flexibility. A genoa track is bolted down in 30 places so it has enough strength in its design. 5200 is over-kill because its strength is mis-matched to its requirements on a boat.

Thanks for the recommendation of Marine Formula though. I haven't used it but I do question the ease of using it on 5200 trapped inside the through-deck cavity, and if I had to go through that hassle on my 150-odd through-deck fittings...