Should I have bilge pumps?

[Tranona]

Whether you need a bilge pump, and what type depends entirely on the the probability of needing to clear water. If your cockpit is self draining then you only have to consider the likelihood of getting significant amounts of water in the cabin. If you don't have a bilge to collect any water then a fixed pump is of limited value and the type you have is suitable as you can direct it to the area where water collects and then pump into the cockpit. one step up from that would be a permanently mounted pump such as the one JD suggests but with a hose on the inlet to access where the water is. The outlet can either go to a skin fitting above the waterline or even into the cockpit to use the drains there.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Dinghies only need a hand bailer, because they should have enough buoyancy to float even if completely flooded. Your boat may be small, but with ballast under the sole boards she sounds more like a little yacht. Yes, she needs a bilge pump.

For the Hunter 490 - which is also a (very) little yacht and has no built in buoyancy I assume that no pump would be capable of keeping up with a leak which seriously threatened the boat. The same goes for my 26-footer, which has a Rule electric pump for drying the bilge and a Whale manual pump which might, if I am lucky, deal with the after effects of an engine hose splitting.

On the Hunter, though, large quantities of water are going to come in either through a hole in the hull (there are no skin fittings) in which case I'll be swimming for it, or by a wave coming in through the cockpit in which case am pretty sure I can empty the cabin a darn sight faster with the bucket and two bailers I have on board than with any pump.

 

[rob2]

Milk carton bailer also makes a handy toilet (#1's ) when solo sailing...

Please remember to screw the cap on... ;-)

Rob

 

[JumbleDuck]

How fast does one have to be going for an Elvstrom bailer to work?

 

[VicS]

How fast does one have to be going for an Elvstrom bailer to work?

AKA Andersen bailers ....... i guess they fit them on Andersen 22s

 

[dunedin]

AKA Andersen bailers ....... i guess they fit them on Andersen 22s

Well Andersen 22's will certainly be fast enough for these bailers ;-)

Small disadvantage of Elvstrom style bailers on anything other than a racing dinghy is a distinct tendency to leak (ie sink) when not moving at speed, whether still open (fast sinking) or closed (slow sinking when away from boat)

 

[prv]

I assume that no pump would be capable of keeping up with a leak which seriously threatened the boat.

Well, yes, the definition of "threatens the boat" is pretty much exactly "that which the pumps cannot keep up with"

Certainly if you have a 2" toilet hose become completely detached then nothing short of a 6-10hp petrol/diesel frame pump is going to let you continue by pumping rather than fixing the leak. But you can have leaking windows in big waves, you can have a small leak from an inaccessible nest of plumbing that you're far too busy / seasick to dig into right now but the pump will stay on top of, you can have water rising slowly in the bilge that actually you have no ****ing idea where it's coming from (probably one of the former, but you don't know what and where and again it feels far too rough to go below and start crawling into awkward spaces). You can have a pressure freshwater system let go and empty itself into the bilge. And you can have a big catastrophic leak that no, the pump wouldn't remotely keep up with, but once you've blocked the leak you're going to want to get the water overboard.

The OP's little boat might not have all of those things, but hopefully the principle is clear - it's not catastrophic holing or nothing. An example more his size perhaps - a sudden strain on the rudder that shifts the lower transom bracket in its holes and starts a small leak. Is he going to crawl under the cockpit and find that on a boisterous day?

A bucket or bailer is certainly better than nothing, but you generally can't sail the boat while using it. You can sail the boat towards harbour while pumping it out using a hand-pump by the tiller - I know, cos I've done it.

Pete

 

[Cymrogwyllt]

In my kayaking days I fitted an electric 450 gph pump to my sea kayaks, with a strainer of course. Manual switch on the deck. Also a Whale deck (front deck for practical reasons) mounted pump and a footrest mounted dregs pump. For a kayak a hand pump is out of the question in any water rough enough to to tip me over so electrics had multiple redundant wiring systems.

Point is Two methods of pumping a boat should be a minimum

 

[sarabande]

If you are on your own you need a pump which can be operated easily without fatigue.


Vyv Cox's excellent page is the guide on how to set one up properly.


http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/bilgepump.aspx

 

[steve yates]

Thanks everyone, yet another bloody project but very useful information, and I'm impressed by that set up of vyv's.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Well, yes, the definition of "threatens the boat" is pretty much exactly "that which the pumps cannot keep up with"

Certainly if you have a 2" toilet hose become completely detached then nothing short of a 6-10hp petrol/diesel frame pump is going to let you continue by pumping rather than fixing the leak. But you can have leaking windows in big waves, you can have a small leak from an inaccessible nest of plumbing that you're far too busy / seasick to dig into right now but the pump will stay on top of, you can have water rising slowly in the bilge that actually you have no ****ing idea where it's coming from (probably one of the former, but you don't know what and where and again it feels far too rough to go below and start crawling into awkward spaces). You can have a pressure freshwater system let go and empty itself into the bilge.

Of course. My point, such as it is, is that in a very small and simple boat like a Hunter 490 or a Bradwell 18 there really aren't many opportunities for anything between an occasional scoop with a bailer and going for a swim. The sort of things you outline are why I wouldn't dream of going without a bilge pump on my 26-footer.

And you can have a big catastrophic leak that no, the pump wouldn't remotely keep up with, but once you've blocked the leak you're going to want to get the water overboard.

That's why one has a bucket, on a small boat. Faster, cheaper and more reliable than a pump, particularly when you have a relatively small amount of water to lift up a relatively small distance.

 

[PhillM]

I think it's a matter of usefulness and risk.

Water ingress via leaky "bits" suggests having an electric pump always on, especially when you are away from the boat.

If you have a lot of water ingress or worry about the battery drain, then use shore power with a battery charger.

If at sea and the bilges are filling. A manual pump in the cockpit, followed by bailer, buckets and if all else fails panic, seem to be the order of the day.

 

[prv]

If at sea and the bilges are filling. A manual pump in the cockpit, followed by bailer, buckets and if all else fails panic, seem to be the order of the day.

We had one on the cockpit manual pump, one on the manual pump in the cabin (well-found Westerly :encouragement, the electric pump running, and two people passing buckets up the companionway.

Pete

 

[William_H]

As said much depends... A smaller boat in GRP as less mass and relatively thicker hull so holing from collision is less likely. Presumably no through hull holes. However things like pintle bolt holes may be a danger if the rudder is ripped off.
Or you may have a potential water entry through the swing keel arrangement.
As said a manual bilge pump is more useful if it is operated from near the helm position so you can keep sailing towards safety.
It is perhaps more practical to incorporate water tight compartments than worry so much about a bilge pump relying on a bucket which you need for other things anyway. Under bunk sealing is a good way.
One way to get an external assessment of your risk is to look at and comply with RYA requirements for various kinds of boats and distance form shore. My guess is that a bucket would be adequate. Electric bilge pumps are not regarded as adequate due to likely failure of supply.
On my 21ft TS I have never had more than a splash in the cabin or water for moments in the self draing cockpit. I do have to comply with YA (RYA) equivalent safety standards which make bucket adequate for this class of racing.
But an open boat not self draining and no cabin would need serious bailing capability and floatation. good luck olewill