Shotley Marina - Site Access Fees

[ieb]

I am wondering what others think about site access fees for contractors to marinas.

I am having some specialist work done, that Shotley can't do although I did give the yard there a chance to quote. When the contractor went on site he was charged 25 GBP a day. He checked with his head office and found that 25GBP per day is way above they are charged elsewhere even at the most expensive marinas on the south coast. It doesn't sound like much, but it soon adds up.

I fully understand a contractors having to report to the office to prove insurance, owners being asked to give the yard a chance to quote, and perhaps a nominal fee, but a fee 156% greater than the nearest on the south coast and 312% MDL on the East Coast (when they charge) seems a little OTT, especially when the work is specialist and can't be done by the yard.

This £25 charge was introduced this year, I think it was in line with other marinas previously. Talking to the marina office I got the response it was out of their hands set by the owners of the marina, but I think it was already causing quite a lot of bad will amongst owners and contractors.

wdyt ?
Is this fair trading, or anti-competitive behaviour ?
Have others been charged a similar amount, or is it only Shotley that does this ?

 

[Mandarin331]

We were charged nothing at SYH last year. You need to check the small print of their terms at Shotley.

 

[merlin3688]

Most yards we go into do not charge us however was in Neptune Marina last week and they tell me they have a £25 per day charge, another one we go into asked for 10% of the bill, the guy quickly moved his boat out!

 

[michael_w]

Sometimes Shotley charges, other times they don't. MDL always charges £8.00 per diem. No charge when visiting for quotation purposes. ABP never charges.

 

[johnalison]

I don't know about Titchmarsh exactly, but I believe they charge £10 to release the boat's keys, of which they keep my spare.

 

[CLB]

Ultimately it is us, the boat owners, that pay these charges, as it will just get added to the bill. Vote with your hulls people.

 

[MikeBz]

Is this fair trading, or anti-competitive behaviour ?
Have others been charged a similar amount, or is it only Shotley that does this ?

IMHO it's anti-competitive & unjustifiable robbery. To me it's in the same category as demanding a percentage of your sale price if you use an outside broker to sell your craft.

 

[Lucky Duck]

Which, of course, Shotley have "form" for.

 

[pvb]

Difficult one, isn't it? If a marina has invested in on-site boatyard facilities, it must be galling to see mobile contractors arrive and do work which they could have done. On the other hand, if it's something they can't do (as in the OP's case), there can be no justification for penalising outside contractors. By all means make them report to the office and wave their insurance certificate around, but not charge them.

Fortunately, I do almost all my maintenance myself. Perhaps these sorts of charging might encourage more DIY?

 

[PaulRainbow]

I don't know about Titchmarsh exactly, but I believe they charge £10 to release the boat's keys, of which they keep my spare.

Titchmarsh charge £12 per day.

 

[johnalison]

Titchmarsh charge £12 per day.

Ah. It's gone up since I last met a chap on board to repair the Webasto so that he wouldn't have to collect the keys. I probably spent as much on petrol getting there.

 

[Tin Tin]

Fox's charges £25/day.

Or at least did so in 2010 (when we were there).

 

[ieb]

I am told Foxes did in 2010, but don't any more. I assume due to pressure from owners or 3rd party contractors, or perhaps bad PR, or general bad will. I don't think it is listed it on the published prices any more.

Some said T&Cs which made me look. Shotley's terms and conditions seem to ban any work by anyone, including (probably especially) the owner that they deem to be more than superficial maintenance (undefined), unless a) its specialist work they have confirmed they cannot do or b) warranty work which they can't do without invalidating the warranty. The only option allowed under the T&Cs is for the yard to quote for the work and for the owner to accept the quoted price, whatever it is. I am not a lawyer but it seems that if this was strictly enforced, it would result in many (more) boats putting out to sea in an unsafe condition. I don't think Shotley have changed their T&Cs in the past 20 years and are hoping no one can be bothered to complain. I've seen some major refits there. (Phoenix of Hamble, and a steel ketch, Pilot boats routine maintenance, etc etc), so I assume they are being reasonable and want customers to stay rather than go elsewhere. If the boat is in the water, its very easy to exit the lock. Perhaps it's time they updated the T&Cs to reflect established practice and to encourage owners to spend money rather than scare them off ?

After all, a DIYer is going to take a lot longer to complete any work, and probably need help from the yard, so the marina will get to charge them for storage and other things for a lot longer, including the 23p/m/day for cradle rental, ie 72/month for a 10m boat on top of storage ashore. (SYH has a flat rate 38+VAT per month, or 9/leg).

The ABP, SYH, MDL T&Cs are seem much more reasonable. They aim to prevent nuisance, give the yard the opportunity to quote, and ensure the site is safe. I think a nominal fee for the keys is Ok. I can't believe I am going to say this, having spent 10 years in a MDL marina on the south coast. MDL's approach seems reasonable.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

I don't know whether this holds water, but I have heard it said that the reason for charging external contractors is because the marina is responsible for H&S on site, and they charge for their site insurance and oversight (yes, I know, what oversight!). However, while I think this is a reasonable basis for marinas insisting on seeing external contractors' insurance and enforcing good working practices, I think that some of the daily rates quoted here are excessive.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I am told Foxes did in 2010, but don't any more. I assume due to pressure from owners or 3rd party contractors, or perhaps bad PR, or general bad will. I don't think it is listed it on the published prices any more.

Sorry, but this is incorrect. Foxs make no charge for contractors providing a service that they do not offer (sailmakers, for instance), but for anything that they do offer there is a charge of £15 + VAT per hour.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I don't know whether this holds water, but I have heard it said that the reason for charging external contractors is because the marina is responsible for H&S on site, and they charge for their site insurance and oversight (yes, I know, what oversight!). However, while I think this is a reasonable basis for marinas insisting on seeing external contractors' insurance and enforcing good working practices, I think that some of the daily rates quoted here are excessive.

I've never worked in a marina that covers me on their insurance Andy, i usually have to provide a copy of my own insurance.

 

[Chalk]

I think it is fair that something is paid to a marina when an external contractor works on a boat. Its not just insurance checks, its a place to park a van with tools, and a generally safe and reasonably secure environment.
That payment can't be a percentage added on to the contractor's invoice as what the marina would see as the declared work value would be different to that paid by the customer.
I'm not going to volunteer to a marina that I have an external contractor on site so and so wouldn't offer to pay any day rate or visit rate (which ought not be the same). My agreement would be with the contractor and where there's a sign on the marina gate saying that external contractors must log in with the office, so they should, and any cost should be passed on to the customer. However, this cost ought to be known first as otherwise it wouldn't be fair or reasonable.
Also, any marina can advertise a range of services in order to cover all possible types of specialist work, not actually have those skills in house, and then sub in an external contractor themselves for that work (or not, if they're too busy and can't be bothered) in order to justify a charge or a cut on a bertholder's choice of external contractor. The problem for me though is not necessarily one of specialism or even cost; but can the marina even do the work in the timescale I want it doing in? The, 'Sure we can do it, sometime in the next six weeks. Perhaps. Cost? Not sure yet', attitude just doesn't wash.
I'm not sure that I would be happy to pay £25 per visit (or day) but can see that its hardly worth a marina administering only £10 per day separately each day. I suppose they estimate what it's going to cost me to take my boat elsewhere for a couple of days.
It's a tricky one. Perhaps options might include a licence, restricted hours, non-advertsing agreement, limit on value etc., but all these have pitfalls. I don't mind paying a little extra to have a better choice of contractor or a better completion date, but I wouldn't want to pay through the nose to support a workshop whose raison d'etre is actually to support bertholders and visitors, and actually turn a profit through their prime location and their skills, and the presence of an on-site near-captive market. Where competition is restricted, service suffers. Berthing and repairs/maintenance are different business elements and if the landowner wants to make an external contractors charge, I think that's fair, but I'm not sure how closely coupled it should be to a workshop.

 

[Momac]

I understand it is £60 per day at the marina where I keep my boat !!!!