Shotgun on board?

[Tim Good]

I feel embarrassed bringing this up and don't want to appear like a gun loving crazy. However I own and have a shotgun in the UK. All registered, licensed and securely in a cabinet.

I heard or read someone saying that shotguns are treated differently when long term cruising and generally acceptable to carry on board if secured correctly.

I'll be heading for West Africa and then either Patagonia or Alaska and considered keeping cheap disposable shotgun aboard... I.e something that is not a big loss if confiscated.

Anyone have any experience in this matter?

 

[lpdsn]

Anyone have any experience in this matter?

Sailing Anarchy might be your best bet for that question. Lots of gun tottin' Yanks.

Consensus however seems to be that anything short of twin large calibre machine guns either side of the cockpit is a liability if it gets to shooting and you're safer being unarmed.

 

[dunedin]

Is this to keep the tax man from coming on board (ref your other thread

 

[Tim Good]

Is this to keep the tax man from coming on board (ref your other thread

 

[CCJ]

I feel embarrassed bringing this up and don't want to appear like a gun loving crazy. However I own and have a shotgun in the UK. All registered, licensed and securely in a cabinet.

I heard or read someone saying that shotguns are treated differently when long term cruising and generally acceptable to carry on board if secured correctly.

I'll be heading for West Africa and then either Patagonia or Alaska and considered keeping cheap disposable shotgun aboard... I.e something that is not a big loss if confiscated.

Anyone have any experience in this matter?

You had better be a good shot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Blake_(sailor)

 

[Tim Good]

You had better be a good shot
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Blake_(sailor)

Beyond using it for self defence, what of the legalities? I agree that a submissive approach is best in the case of thieves or pirates boarding.

 

[<152587>]

Worked on-board for a large American oil company many years ago running in and out of West Africa. Old man had company issue side arm and ammunition in the safe. many times the customs immigration demanded the production and loading of the piece and then staged mock gun fights around the old mans suite. The company was heavily persuaded to change the arms policy.

Have you the sufficient psychological prescence to pull a trigger and blow someones head off? Slight hesitation is the difference between life and death, yours!

Lastly, don't forget you have only 2 chances, assuming it is double barrel, they may have more than 1 magazine of chances.

 

[GrahamM376]

Beyond using it for self defence, what of the legalities? I agree that a submissive approach is best in the case of thieves or pirates boarding.

Legalities change from country to country and I would suggest investing in some good lock picks to get out of cells in most of them. Quickest way to jail.

 

[Normalfornorfolk]

Isn't it sad that someone feels they have to apologise for owning a gun? What a silly society we live in.
Equally, why do people immediately jump to the conclusion that a gun is for "blowing peoples' heads off" even though the OP actually suggested it is not...
istr that Bermuda (a bit off your route, I know) for one has a zero tolerance of firearms and any on board will be confiscated. Whether or not you get them back on departure I can't say but think of the UK position if a yacht arrived with even a shotgun on board. What reaction do you imagine you'd get from plod turning up in Newhaven with an unlicenced gun, which by definition any gun is whan it arrives in a foreign port? If they seal the cabinet you'll be in a world of hurt if you took it out and used it to get a seaduck for dinner - so what's the point of a gun you can't use? - and they don't have much use in mid ocean.
Me, I wouldn't risk the bureaucracy it would bury you in wherever you went.
Have a word with your local harbourmaster is my suggetion, he'll know something about how we deal with it in UK.

Years ago an American acquaintance bought a 50 footer in Florida and had crusied the Med for 3 years before one day doing some rewiring they took off a panel in the saloon and found a beautiful stainless steel Ruger rifle and ammo, and it wasn't a .22 by a long chalk. After some target practice on cans at sea they deep-sixed it before the next port. His opinion was that if it had been found on a rummage in Bermuda he'd have been locked up and the boat impounded. If you carry you MUST declare it, hide it and if found you'll be treated as a gun-runner, even if you didn't know it was there.

There's much info to be found on t'internet with all the usual caveats. http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f57/firearms-regulations-by-country-1641.html
Sealable cabinets evidently help in some places but remember if they confiscate the weapon for safe-keeping it does mean you'll have to exit by the same port you entered if you want to get it back- and that will often be very inconvenient.

 

[duncan99210]

As a general rule, if you have a valid shotgun certificate with the gun recoded on it, you can secure the gun on board. On arrival in foreign port, you'll have to declare the gun to customs: they will either seal the cabinet until you depart, take custody of the gun until departure or confiscate it. It very much depends on the country visited, so you'd need to check the rules for all the countries you intend to visit and find out if you can retain the gun during your visit.
For the protection that a shotgun would give you versus the sheer hassle of having to clear the thing with customs each time you entered port I don't think it's worthwhile. As has been said above, a long barrelled two shot weapon doesn't stand much chance against a pistol or assault rifle. And the consequences of killing or injuring the 'honest' citizens of whatever place you're in doesn't really bear thinking about.

 

[Carmel2]

"Isn't it sad that someone feels they have to apologise for owning a gun?"

Given when asked for light we apologise for not smoking... Now that is sad.

 

[Tim Good]

Isn't it sad that someone feels they have to apologise for owning a gun? What a silly society we live in.
Equally, why do people immediately jump to the conclusion that a gun is for "blowing peoples' heads off" even though the OP actually suggested it is not...
istr that Bermuda (a bit off your route, I know) for one has a zero tolerance of firearms and any on board will be confiscated. Whether or not you get them back on departure I can't say but think of the UK position if a yacht arrived with even a shotgun on board. What reaction do you imagine you'd get from plod turning up in Newhaven with an unlicenced gun, which by definition any gun is whan it arrives in a foreign port? If they seal the cabinet you'll be in a world of hurt if you took it out and used it to get a seaduck for dinner - so what's the point of a gun you can't use? - and they don't have much use in mid ocean.
Me, I wouldn't risk the bureaucracy it would bury you in wherever you went.
Have a word with your local harbourmaster is my suggetion, he'll know something about how we deal with it in UK.

Years ago an American acquaintance bought a 50 footer in Florida and had crusied the Med for 3 years before one day doing some rewiring they took off a panel in the saloon and found a beautiful stainless steel Ruger rifle and ammo, and it wasn't a .22 by a long chalk. After some target practice on cans at sea they deep-sixed it before the next port. His opinion was that if it had been found on a rummage in Bermuda he'd have been locked up and the boat impounded.

Thanks for the post..... you're correct no I didn't want to gun for self defence but where I'm planning to go over the coming years I do want to be self sufficient in very remote areas. That said I'm a huge wildlife lover so I didn't want to get into a debate about shooting animals in far off lands untainted by humans. A whole other debate there and whether buying meat from farmed sources is better or worse.

Anyway I think the consensus is that it is not worth it and to pick something up on specific occasions like Alaska and Greenland if needed.

That said I've heard stories of yanks that carry all sorts of guns all over the place and customs in various countries turning a blind eye providing it doesn't leave the boat.

 

[Tim Good]

As a general rule, if you have a valid shotgun certificate with the gun recoded on it, you can secure the gun on board. On arrival in foreign port, you'll have to declare the gun to customs: they will either seal the cabinet until you depart, take custody of the gun until departure or confiscate it. It very much depends on the country visited, so you'd need to check the rules for all the countries you intend to visit and find out if you can retain the gun during your visit.
For the protection that a shotgun would give you versus the sheer hassle of having to clear the thing with customs each time you entered port I don't think it's worthwhile. As has been said above, a long barrelled two shot weapon doesn't stand much chance against a pistol or assault rifle. And the consequences of killing or injuring the 'honest' citizens of whatever place you're in doesn't really bear thinking about.

Sound advice thanks.

 

[jdc]

My experience of carrying firearms aboard a yacht is for a rifle (rather a powerful one, a 30-06 Mauser) not for a shotgun so I can't be definitive. In the UK the rifle wasn't an issue at all, but the ammunition was: my firearms certificate exressly forbade my having any ammunition of that calibre while in the UK. In Norway the UK firearms certificate was accepted without demur and I was able to obtain the ammunition on a 'sale or return' basis, and hire or buy rifles.

The reason to carry a firearm was indeed for self defence, but against polar bears of course, not people (it's an infantile townie's response to assume any gun is for pointing at people). In fact in some places, Svalbard in particular, the authorities won't allow one to be there without such a weapon. They also like one to be trained to use it: I went on a special course in the UK (run by Cambridge University for field workers in the high arctic) to be taught how to use it, and much more importantly, how to avoid having to use it.

But a shotgun is less useful I believe. Firstly it will only be suitable for polar bear protection if you have special ammunition (fewer but much larger pellets in a cartridge, or so I understand), and if it's a pump-action one which can fire more than 2 rounds. This is most likely not what you have and is (I think) illegal in the UK anyway.

Secondly, most places in the arctic won't allow non residents to hunt for the pot: Greenland and Svalbard certainly won't since you're not Innuit (I assume.) I imagine that in Russia or the US, e.g. Alaska, it's easier but under those circumstances frankly I think you'd be better to take your shotgun licence with you, but not the gun, and just buy one locally.

 

[Prasutigus]

Greetings,
last autumn I was on my yacht in SE Norway, tied up on the wall, in a little place called Spangereid.

Long story, but me and a couple of ships' engineers spent a lazy Sunday afternoon taking pot shots at jellyfish ( there was an infestation which had blocked up their engine cooling inlets).

Just a .177 air rifle, all good clean fun.

Then two police vans screeched round the corner and a dozen hyped-up, black clad paramilitary coppers bomb-burst out of the wagons and took position, (some behind cover ) screaming Drop The Weapon! and all that palava.

H'n'K MP5's with safeties off, they were over excited to put it mildly, so I complied. Believe me I did.

I had to wait with my hands on my head etc, until a grown up arrived from Police HQ and sent them packing, don't waste everyones' time, and so on.

He still, apologetically, confiscated my 177 though.

Bunch of clowns.

 

[GrahamM376]

I've had shotguns most of my life and went down to talk to the police Firearms dept who issued my certificate about getting a European shotgun license as I occasionally do some clay shooting on a relative's farm here. Although they are available, advice was not to carry the gun on board as some countries can still be difficult and outside Europe, Morocco for instance, it can be a quick ticket to the lockup. Sold the gun.

 

[Prasutigus]

JDC, interesting about the bear guns.

 

[Sandy]

I'll be heading for West Africa and then either Patagonia or Alaska and considered keeping cheap disposable shotgun aboard... I.e something that is not a big loss if confiscated.

What are you planning to use it for.

It's no defence against an AK47 or bear, of any colour, but might insure that you have a quick death from a hail of AK47 rounds or an angry bear.

 

[KellysEye]

First bear in mind the bad guys use AK47s, there are usually two or three of them, so you will be outgunned and you will need to put the gun on the customs form and give them the gun until you leave. An American cruiser we knew carried a M16 and pirogue of the Venezuelan coast approached and he fired a warning burst and they turned off.

 

[Yngmar]

Sabine Merz had a shotgun. Which was found next to her corpse. "She tried to shoot us, so we shot her." Article: http://www.smh.com.au/world/german-...militants-in-philippines-20161108-gskdt8.html

I concluded for myself that guns on boats are:
- A lot of extra hassle with authorities
- Not an effective means of defense against pirates
- Increasing the likelihood of you being killed during a pirate attack (which however may forestall being ransomed or executed later)

Personally, I just follow the cruising/piracy news a bit and stay away from bad spots (e.g. go to Mindelo instead of Praia on the Cape Verdes: http://www.noonsite.com/Countries/CapeVerdes/Praia )