Shortening a course. Should Race officer ensure the new course is fair?

[ProDave]

I will try and explain.

Cruiser race, in light winds. After rounding the first 2 marks after the start, we had a long downwind leg in light winds against an incoming tide. That leg of the race had lots of options, our target was to round a headland as our next mark.

Because of the light wind and tide against us most crews decided to get out of the main tidal stream, some chose to go north and some chose to go south. No particular advantage to either as we all had to converge again at the next mark.

But the wind got even less to the point the race officer chose to shorten the course. He did so by announcing a revised finish.

The position of the revised finish was NOT in line with the mark we were aiming for. So for those that had chosen the north path to avoid the tide had a shorter course than those who went south.

It just seemed to me the RO did not understand how he was advantaging some crews by not making the revised finish close to the headland we were all aiming for which would have given all crews a shortened course of the same length?

I would have thought rather than choose a revised finish that was not even on the original course, they would have made the revised finish just the next mark you were all aiming for?

 

[dunedin]

For a major championship with a trained race team - that would be a bad decision and could be challenged in a protest (though this might fail).
For a club race with a duty race officer - not ideal but hey at least he / she shortened so we can all go to the pub.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

At club level, shortening the course is often on shifting sands. The only thing you can hope is that over a season, it’s equally unfair for all.

 

[flaming]

I will try and explain.

Cruiser race, in light winds. After rounding the first 2 marks after the start, we had a long downwind leg in light winds against an incoming tide. That leg of the race had lots of options, our target was to round a headland as our next mark.

Because of the light wind and tide against us most crews decided to get out of the main tidal stream, some chose to go north and some chose to go south. No particular advantage to either as we all had to converge again at the next mark.

But the wind got even less to the point the race officer chose to shorten the course. He did so by announcing a revised finish.

The position of the revised finish was NOT in line with the mark we were aiming for. So for those that had chosen the north path to avoid the tide had a shorter course than those who went south.

It just seemed to me the RO did not understand how he was advantaging some crews by not making the revised finish close to the headland we were all aiming for which would have given all crews a shortened course of the same length?

I would have thought rather than choose a revised finish that was not even on the original course, they would have made the revised finish just the next mark you were all aiming for?

In the absence of any specific SI governing how this club will manage shortening course, by the rules, the actions of the RO were incorrect, and open to protest.

The relevant text in the rules is this.

32.2 To shorten the course, the race committee shall display flag S with two sounds before the first boat crosses the finishing line.
If the course is shortened, the finishing line shall be,
(a) at a rounding mark, between the mark and a staff displaying flag S;
(b) a line the course requires boats to cross; or
(c) at a gate, between the gate marks.

If you want to lay a completely new finish line, you can do that providing you do it before any boat rounds the preceding mark.

While boats are racing, the race committee may change a leg of the course that begins at a rounding mark or at a gate by changing the position of the next mark (or the finishing line) and signalling all boats before they begin the leg. The next mark need not be in position at that time.

Technically you'd do that by signalling a change of course at the previous mark and giving the position of the new mark, then shortening course at the new mark.

But the basic concept is that you can only shorten the course at a mark that the boats were sailing to. Setting up a completely separate finish line and telling boats to go there instead of the mark they were already sailing to is a big no-no.

HOWEVER. this is not championship level racing. It's cruiser racing. So whilst you might have a very legitimate case against the RO, a protest would almost certainly result in only one of 2 possible outcomes.

1. Scoring the race by the positions of the boats at the previous mark, if that information is available.
2. Throwing the race out.

In terms of why you were out there, is that what you want?

 

[dunedin]

In the absence of any specific SI governing how this club will manage shortening course, by the rules, the actions of the RO were incorrect, and open to protest.

The relevant text in the rules is this.



If you want to lay a completely new finish line, you can do that providing you do it before any boat rounds the preceding mark.



Technically you'd do that by signalling a change of course at the previous mark and giving the position of the new mark, then shortening course at the new mark.

But the basic concept is that you can only shorten the course at a mark that the boats were sailing to. Setting up a completely separate finish line and telling boats to go there instead of the mark they were already sailing to is a big no-no.

HOWEVER. this is not championship level racing. It's cruiser racing. So whilst you might have a very legitimate case against the RO, a protest would almost certainly result in only one of 2 possible outcomes.

1. Scoring the race by the positions of the boats at the previous mark, if that information is available.
2. Throwing the race out.

In terms of why you were out there, is that what you want?

Yes. And if the RO knew the rules precisely and the wind dropped after the last mark rounding, the only options would be abandoning and losing any result or a very long slog towards the original finishing line and one or all of (a) everybody missing the pub (b) a handful of boats finishing within the time limit and the rest being excluded (c) everybody drifting pointlessly for ages then the time limit expiring and again no result.
For club racing often a pragmatic and flexible approach is best.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

The trouble with racing is just as DC said. Itks not a matter of life and death. It’s much more serious.

 

[flaming]

Yes. And if the RO knew the rules precisely and the wind dropped after the last mark rounding, the only options would be abandoning and losing any result or a very long slog towards the original finishing line and one or all of (a) everybody missing the pub (b) a handful of boats finishing within the time limit and the rest being excluded (c) everybody drifting pointlessly for ages then the time limit expiring and again no result.
For club racing often a pragmatic and flexible approach is best.

Which is why when the wind is light and likely to drop, setting a course with long legs is a mistake. Especially in areas with strong tides.

Set a course with legs of no more than a mile and lots of mark roundings and you get plenty of opportunity to shorten.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Which is why when the wind is light and likely to drop, setting a course with long legs is a mistake. Especially in areas with strong tides.

Set a course with legs of no more than a mile and lots of mark roundings and you get plenty of opportunity to shorten.

We tend to set short courses with several laps in light winds, then we have a proper finish line almost guaranteed. As long as the R.O. Remembers how hard it is to round a windward mark into the tide from the inshore side.

 

[Laser310]

if nobody cares.., then it doesn't matter what the RC does.

but in my experience, people always care.

So, better to abandon than to have an obviously unfair result.

There is a reason why the RRS has rules for shortening a course.

I wonder what the RC were seeing just before the first boats rounded that mark. I guess there is a pretty good chance they saw the conditions deteriorating as the boats were about to start a long leg.

Maybe they could have acted faster and got a boat to that mark to record finish times - assuming this was a handicap race. If it wasn't, they could just ask the competitors in what order they rounded, unless it was a large fleet with boats close to each other.

Sure, there could have been a situation were everything looked great until a few boats were around, and then it looked terrible.

In that case, i think abandoning is preferable to a bad result.

As a competitor, I realize that sometimes races will be abandoned. It's infrequent, but usually when it happens, it is the best option.

Now, I once crossed the finish line in first, only to have the race committee abandon the race for light wind. I was annoyed, but it is permitted.

 

[ProDave]

Post #4 makes the best explanation.

We were annoyed when the course change was announced and it appeared to favour other boats. But it did not change the oucome, we finished second, the winning boat has already passed the previous mark before us.

 

[oldbloke]

Assuming that you had lost out by his/her action,you could legitimately make a claim for redress under rule 62.1 and .2 .

 

[Mark-1]

Assuming that you had lost out by his/her action,you could legitimately make a claim for redress under rule 62.1 and .2 .

Well, yeah, but there's a time limit:
RRS | Protests, redress, rule 69 action

...and, as others say, is it really appropriate for a club evening race?

The truth is there's a dearth of 'volunteers' in every hobby/sport and sailing is no different so the standard of ROs has dropped off a cliff in the last 30 years IME. The solution is for capable (younger?) people do do a bit less racing and a bit more ROing, but there is zero enthusiasm for that.

At least it gives me something to grumble about. In my case usually preceded by "It doesn't bother me, but...". On one occasion a lovely old woman pointed out that, if it didn't bother me, why I was I still talking about it, 5 months after I'd been cruelly cheated out of 4th place in Spring Series Race 5.

 

[flaming]

Post #4 makes the best explanation.

We were annoyed when the course change was announced and it appeared to favour other boats. But it did not change the oucome, we finished second, the winning boat has already passed the previous mark before us.

If I was you I'd talk to the RO, emphasising that you aren't protesting, but pointing out that his actions would be protestable. And then suggest that for future light wind days courses with more, shorter, legs would make it much easier to shorten the course whilst staying in line with the RRS.

 

[The Q]

We just accept it at our club, but being on a river there's less difference from side to side.

Years ago it was wind against tide, they moved the finish to a few yards In front of the lead boat. River 100ft wide at that point, we race boats up to 45 ft long through there, though in this case below it was a class of 19 ft open keel boats.
He came third, he stopped wind against tide 1 foot from the finish line, two boats managed to pass him..

 

[oldbloke]

Well, yeah, but there's a time limit:
RRS | Protests, redress, rule 69 action

...and, as others say, is it really appropriate for a club evening race?

The truth is there's a dearth of 'volunteers' in every hobby/sport and sailing is no different so the standard of ROs has dropped off a cliff in the last 30 years IME. The solution is for capable (younger?) people do do a bit less racing and a bit more ROing, but there is zero enthusiasm for that.

At least it gives me something to grumble about. In my case usually preceded by "It doesn't bother me, but...". On one occasion a lovely old woman pointed out that, if it didn't bother me, why I was I still talking about it, 5 months after I'd been cruelly cheated out of 4th place in Spring Series Race 5.

I didn't say he should do it, just pointing out that you have an option.

 

[Mark-1]

I didn't say he should do it, just pointing out that you have an option.

Yup, wasn't disagreeing with you.

 

[Muddy32]

Average club ROs, who are put unto the position by duty/default are put into a difficult position. They normally race but do not have the time or inclination to either learn the complex "rules" or experience ,to be "competent". It took 3 years for me to become an IRO, with much time, attending seminars, and under studying others in a variety of places. Not a commitment the average club sailor is likely to be prepared to put in. I also don't claim to always make the right decisions, but do have the knowledge to look at RRS for help, but try to aim to be fair and anticipate problems.

RRS are rules, so the "correct" way of doing many of the problems that occur, involve knowledge. Takes time and application.

The real reason clubs put out racing for their members, is to enable them to get out on the water, hopefully sailing, and then come back to the bar to "discuss" their experience.

They should always be encouraged to consider what is "fair" to their fellow sailors.

It inevitably changes with how keen the class /club is on the level of competition.

 

[dunedin]

If I was you I'd talk to the RO, emphasising that you aren't protesting, but pointing out that his actions would be protestable. And then suggest that for future light wind days courses with more, shorter, legs would make it much easier to shorten the course whilst staying in line with the RRS.

Need to be very careful.
I am not certain, but suspect based upon location that it was a very small club race with a handful of boats, of very mixed abilities and competitiveness. And probably already difficult to fill the duty rotas.

The RO probably rightly feels he/she did a reasonable job as an untrained volunteer. And “if you don’t like it, do it yourself next time as I am not coming back” might be the most likely outcome.

It wasn’t the IRC World Championships. And indeed the OP who is grumbling wasn’t even adversely impacted.

 

[Mark-1]

Need to be very careful.
The RO probably rightly feels he/she did a reasonable job as an untrained volunteer. And “if you don’t like it, do it yourself next time as I am not coming back” might be the most likely outcome.

Very much this.

And indeed the OP who is grumbling wasn’t even adversely impacted.

Well yeah, although I think getting a position you feel you don't deserve is just as frustrating as missing out on a position you feel you deserved.

 

[flaming]

Need to be very careful.
I am not certain, but suspect based upon location that it was a very small club race with a handful of boats, of very mixed abilities and competitiveness. And probably already difficult to fill the duty rotas.

The RO probably rightly feels he/she did a reasonable job as an untrained volunteer. And “if you don’t like it, do it yourself next time as I am not coming back” might be the most likely outcome.

It wasn’t the IRC World Championships. And indeed the OP who is grumbling wasn’t even adversely impacted.

For sure.

But I think if you approach it right, along the lines of "look, how that went was fine for the fleet last week, but if we ever get a rules hotshot here we're going to be in trouble..." Might work.

I didn't take the OP as a grumble, more of an inquiry as to what the rules actually are.