Short-handed MOB advice please

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frderek

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1985 Westerly Merlin 28

Having read January's YM on short-handed MOB and articles in recent months on the effects of cold-shock etc and the cardio-vascular advantages of keeping the casualty horizontal, I am persuaded of the merits of the MobMat, especially given our boat's freeboard and lack of sugar-scoop. However:

1. None of my present halyards will reach the main self-tailing winches
2. None of them is Dyneema so the halyard stretch problem encountered in the YM article is likely to be a problem for us too.
3. The mast is currently unstepped so any running rigging COULD be replaced, in theory.
4. I already know that I want a new topping-lift, extended back to the cockpit (and have the organiser and jammer space available to do just that).

The thought occurs to me that perhaps using the topping-lift as the MOB-recovery might work well, with a handy-billy attached to the boom.

I'd welcome your thoughts/questions on a Dyneema topping-lift long enough to reach the self-tailing two-speed main winches. Also on the potential advantages/pitfalls of using the boom in this way to lift the casualty clear of the rails and bring him/her inboard.

--
Derek
 
I don't think in terms of craning someone clean over the rails, more in terms of cutting the lifeline lashings an hauling the victim high enough to roll them over the edge of the deck.
Having their harness take their main weight while you get another line under their knees is supposed to be a good way of reducing the impact of raising them vertically.
I'm not convinced by any mats or gizmos, until I've seen one work at least in a proper Solent chop.
Of course, if they are not wearing a harness, you need the sling which needs more lift.
 
I don't get YM so I haven't read the article, but I always thought that the vascular collapse problem avoided by horizontal lifting only came into play after several hours' immersion. In local waters, if someone's been in that long, they're probably being fished out by the lifeboat rather than the yacht they fell off.

Or am I misinformed?

Pete
 
We managed to haul someone up using the spini halyard with a handy billy attached. The problem with using the boom is that you might have a sail up and need to have that under control. Also the end of the boom might not be very high or near the side of the boat. A line from the masthead will bring someone inboard.

Get a few mates together and practice. Very instructive and difficult attached to a buoy in flat water. In wind and a seaway it would be very very difficult.
 
So far I have not yet read the YM article.

In the mid 1960's I was on my father's boat and we were sailing in January. We came across an upturned and semi-submerged dinghy with 5 fishermen in the water - all with no lifejackets. One was semi-concious and the rest were suffering from hypothermia. We managed to haul the semi-concious man out using a halyard, which the other men had fixed. The rest managed with assistance to use a boarding ladder. In those days VHF and mobile phones did not exist, but we had a radio set and contacted the coastguard. The lifeboat and helicopter came and off loaded the men.

If we had not been sailing, or had not followed that particular course, I doubt if those men would have survived more than another 15 minutes. In the circumstances, we had no special equipment, just our brains to try and use our boat's equipment to help save them. It was a great motivator, not a practice run. Fully clothed men that were soaked through were very heavy and winch power was certainly needed. Do I think we could have done it better with modern aids, no.

We later found out what caused the capsize. One man caught a fish and stood up in a 10ft dinghy to reel it in. The dinghy was overloaded for the conditions and he turned it over. Not one of the men even thanked us for their rescue and we even had a complaint we did not rescue their dinghy!
 
prv said:
I don't get YM so I haven't read the article, but I always thought that the vascular collapse problem avoided by horizontal lifting only came into play after several hours' immersion. In local waters, if someone's been in that long, they're probably being fished out by the lifeboat rather than the yacht they fell off.

Or am I misinformed?

Pete
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Sadly misinformed, I'm afraid. You need to get them out in under an hour and during that first hour the danger from elevated blood pressure and heart-rate is at its most acute. After an hour it probably won't matter vertical or horizontal as they probably won't survive anyway. According to the YM article. The Americans have a 50:50:50 rule - 50 minutes at 50 deg F = 50% survival.
 
Just a thought on using the topping lift instead of a halyard. In a MOB situation there is a good chance you will want to dump the main, if you do so will your topping lift be free to use for the recovery? I know mine wouldn't be.
 
Triassic said:
Just a thought on using the topping lift instead of a halyard. In a MOB situation there is a good chance you will want to dump the main, if you do so will your topping lift be free to use for the recovery? I know mine wouldn't be.
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Was thinking more of using the boom like the jib of a crane with the handy-billy attached part-way along it. Presuming the boom will be to leeward, where the MOB is. Plenty of purchase then to lift the boom on one winch and pull in the handy-billy on the other??? We're thinking of a 9-stone woman retrieving a sixteen stone man, as per the YM article and as per our boat when we sail as a couple :) Then the boom could be swung in and centred to put the casualty on the cockpit sole where, according to an article a couple of months ago, he/she needs to be.
 
frderek said:
Was thinking more of using the boom like the jib of a crane with the handy-billy attached part-way along it. Presuming the boom will be to leeward, where the MOB is. Plenty of purchase then to lift the boom on one winch and pull in the handy-billy on the other??? We're thinking of a 9-stone woman retrieving a sixteen stone man, as per the YM article and as per our boat when we sail as a couple :) Then the boom could be swung in and centred to put the casualty on the cockpit sole where, according to an article a couple of months ago, he/she needs to be.
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I still reckon it's best not to have sail-handling and casualty-hoisting interfering with each other. My lifting tackle goes on the end of the spinnaker halyard.

(If we lost someone with the cruising chute up then life would definitely be more complicated, but whatever happens I'm fairly sure we'd have the chute down on deck and the halyard free before getting to the point of lifting aboard!)

Pete
 
With a boat with a very sloped transom, I wondered about hauling the casualty up the transom, if there were steps where they could help themselves so much the better.
There is the issue of the stern of the boat bobbing up and down, which applies in some cockpits too.
 
I winch my inflatable dingy out with a halyard from the mast head, I'm sure it would also lift a person.
The different ways of doing it depend a great deal on the boat: freeboard, boat size, mast/boom strength, winch/rope size, etc.
What works on a 40 footer probably won't on a 23 ft gaffer and vice versa.
 
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Yachting magazines are always banging on about MOB but never have an article about how to stop an MOB which is much more important. As I've mentioned before, fit a U bolt in cockpit to clip on to, use a harness with one short and one long tether and jackstays. Always use the short tether when the in cockpit or on deck, the long tether is to tie around the mast when reefing the sail, don't unclip the short tether. When going forward on deck go on your knees in bad weather. We always clipped on at night and in bad weather, the chance of going overboard is nil because the short tether won't allow you go over the rail which you can test.

We did carry a six to one block and tackle permanently attached to a halyard and clipped on a rail, which I have never seen on another boat. We did test that Jane and I could lift each other out of the water in full wet weather gear. Having it there was pointless given neither of us could go overboard but it looked good ;-)
 
LadyInBed said:
What works on a 40 footer probably won't on a 23 ft gaffer.
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Gaffers are great for this - most have a ready-made MOB hoist in the shape of the backstays. As long as they're the type with a purchase rather than a lever, all you need to do is swap the lower shackle for a carbine hook. Then you have a wire from the hounds with a tackle on the end, ready-rigged on each side.

Pete
 
I have my Spinnaker pole up haul as a flourescent orange 10mm braid. It is long enough to reach the water at the stern while still having enough to wind on the winch by the cockpit.
If I were to hook the casualty near the shroud ( where I have something to hang on to) take up the slack. Then let the boat go forward, the casualty would be dragged aft in the water but be gradually raised up by the radius of the halliard from its mast exit f. So without much winching it should be possible to swing them in at the aft end of the cockpit if the guard wire was released. Specially so if the bot could be heeled a bit
The halliard has a plastic practice golf ball sewn in it such that if the crew lost the end of the halliard in the panic the crew in the cockpit could not hoist it out of reach of the crew at the mast
Being flourescent orange makes it far easier for all on board to know exactly what rope they are pulling. The golf ball does not stop the halliard being used to hoist the pole It just stops it running too far up the mast being 10 metres up the halliard
 
LadyInBed said:
Dependant on where you are!
I would feel a bit inadequate, sat on the boat chatting to my crew in the water, saying "it's ok, help is on the way, is the water nice and warm" :nonchalance:
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If help IS on its way, then get on with trying to recover the MOB if at all possible. If you haven't called for help, much time can be consumed during prolonged or unsuccessful recovery.
 
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