Short-handed downwind sail options

Yealm

Yealm

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I'm thinking about a downwind sail option for my contessa 32 - but don't want to bother with a symmetric spinnaker.

I wonder if people have used asymmetric spinnakers with snuffers or furling code zeros on these type of old boats ? Or whether you need to have a bowsprit/extensive modification of the pulpit ? And I'm not sure how much extra benefit over the rather large genoa ?

Grateful for any advice.. :)
 
Why not "bother" with the symmetric? After all the boat is set up for it already. I manage to fly mine single-handed though perhaps not as often now as when in my 60s. I also have a cruising shute and have tried and rejected a snuffer as a work of the devil. May I offer the following .......
  • You need an autotiller or another bod to steer while you are out the cockpit
  • Collapse or remove the sprayhood so you can easily reach all clutches/cleats/winches from the coachroof
  • Hoist from bag forward of leeward shrouds
  • (Don't forget to apply a bit of tension to pole downhaul to prevent skying)
  • I hoist from mast with a cam-cleat on the mast and tail and tidy halyard through coachroof clutch when the thing is settled
  • Always have lots of room to leeward, just in case of FUs
  • Dropping is easy - bear away to near a run; let the pole forward, capture the lazy guy and pull sail behind main (I take a half-hitch round the weather hand rail); release guy; gather foot; blow halyard; collect sail down hatch
  • Tidy up ropes, pack spinnaker before putting kettle on.
An assymetric is almost as much "bother" and won't let you go anywhere near as deep. A snuffer has you much more on the foredeck and remote from the cockpit while setting/snuffing the sail and trying to untangle the thing!
 
I found a cruising chute with the tack line from the toe rail good from beam reach to a broad reach, say 30 degrees off the stern but wider than that a waste of time. With a reasonable amount of wind flying it from the end of the spinnaker pole worked ok. But I have invested in a new symmetric (60 sq m) a bit under max size which is a lot better. Both have new stuffers which work well the old one was useless.

I spent a lot of time getting the deck gear right (removed by a previous owner during a refit) and have most of the lines at the mast and the guy / tweakers for the symetric on the coach roof with clutches.

Achilles 9m sailed single handed.
 
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Agree with awol (posts crossed) especially re the need for an auto pilot, I have Raymarne linked to the wind instruments as well as the plotter and it’s own 9 axis sensor. I will stick with my snuffers though :)
 
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A bowsprit is not strictly necessary. The key dimension is to get the furling drum (if you are using one) a minimum of 30cm forward of the current furling drum (if you have one). This can often be achieved by taking something off the bow roller, but you will have to look at your individual set up. You may or may not be able to do this within the current pulpit. Obviously the further forward you mount the tack the more clear air for the sail.

The advantage over a genoa is that you have more of a spinnaker shape and usually made of light nylon fabric, so is more effective at deeper angles. Depending on the sail area you choose, they are mainly light airs sails - up to 15-20 knots. There is a wide range of choices of sizes and cuts with different characteristics, mainly in the range of angles over which they are effective. So you need to talk to sailmakers about what you are expecting out of the sail. I have just been through this and have ordered a "conventional" cruising chute of modest size with Selden furling gear from Kemp Sails. Similar size boat (but very different type) to yours which I mostly sail single handed.

Should add, perhaps that mine is a modern fractional rigged boat with a 105% foresail so loses as soon as the wind is aft of the beam and the big main starts to blanket the jib.

Having seen the other responses, they reflect in part the type of rig you have. However, if you invest in the furling gear, that removes most of the criticism about handling the sail, but I agree you are unlikely to get the same benefit from the sail as I will.
 
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i changed a worn baggy roller genoa for a heavy blade non overlapping genoa for strong and upwind and an asymmetric with snuffer for reaching and downwind when light.

It's a big thing to handle on a 42 footer particularly as it's my toy and my wife usually carries on sunbathing. But after quite a bit of practice I find it works a treat as I can do everything in stages with autohelm, and I use it a lot more now I keep it in its bag permanently tied by the mast with halyard ready to go.

It's easy to hoist the snuffed sail and leave it there until the right moment and I now know to hoist it tight so the luff acts as a semi rigid bar to slide the snuffer up. I now also pack it more carefully so all ropes come out of the bag the right way and have only one sheet on.

So if set up right hoisting the snuffer is simple and very quick - however this is the tricky bit for me alone as the sheet needs controlling fast so I now lead the sheet around a block at the stern and back to the mast.

Snuffing at the end has always been easy even when sail full in a gust
 
I have a conventional spinnaker and cruising chute and find both have their uses. Being singlehanded the policy is not to fly either above about 15kts true, this is not always followed but it is still in standing orders.

I follow awol's methodology almost exactly, though I hoist both sails from the cockpit.
I like to hoist and trim as rapidly as possible, the two snuffers I had, I sold, they fetched a reasonable price.

The asymmetric is tacked to the anchor pin forward of the pulpit and it gives a reasonable clearance. My anchor set up is not standard though, you may find it would work taking a line under the anchor roller.

When it is windy, in lumpy seas or just cruising it is very handy to use the genoa poked out on the spinnaker pole. This is pretty efficient and the sail reefs well with the pole in position - should you need to do this in a hurry. A longer carbon pole would be ideal but the prices are a shocker.

You may not have seen this video of Peter Saunders speaking informally about all the sail options for the boat. He gets around to fore sails about 19 mins in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjJzNf4sioA&t=577s

Do you have a suitable spinnaker?
 
thanks - you have a C32 too ? in Plymouth ? Genoa on the pole sounds good - I'll try it - Ive got two carbon poles that came with the boat.

doug748 said:
I have a conventional spinnaker and cruising chute and find both have their uses. Being singlehanded the policy is not to fly either above about 15kts true, this is not always followed but it is still in standing orders.

I follow awol's methodology almost exactly, though I hoist both sails from the cockpit.
I like to hoist and trim as rapidly as possible, the two snuffers I had, I sold, they fetched a reasonable price.

The asymmetric is tacked to the anchor pin forward of the pulpit and it gives a reasonable clearance. My anchor set up is not standard though, you may find it would work taking a line under the anchor roller.

When it is windy, in lumpy seas or just cruising it is very handy to use the genoa poked out on the spinnaker pole. This is pretty efficient and the sail reefs well with the pole in position - should you need to do this in a hurry. A longer carbon pole would be ideal but the prices are a shocker.

You may not have seen this video of Peter Saunders speaking informally about all the sail options for the boat. He gets around to fore sails about 19 mins in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjJzNf4sioA&t=577s

Do you have a suitable spinnaker?
Click to expand...
 
Yealm said:
thanks - you have a C32 too ? in Plymouth ? Genoa on the pole sounds good - I'll try it - Ive got two carbon poles that came with the boat.
Click to expand...

Yes. I guess you are in the Yealm... which has a good deal going for it. Good shelter and zero swell.

Those poles sound very handy, though I tend to end for end my single one. It is very heavy and I can often get away without a downhaul, as I am only normally in light airs. Your light poles will tend to fly so the downhauls will, no doubt earn their keep.
 
I would look for a secondhand symmetric kite.
Size? As big as you dare if you mostly want to avoid motoring in light air, smaller for fun in more breeze.
Something past its racing days will make a big difference and it's a lot less painful if it gets damaged.
It's horses for courses, you can justify any number of sails, but as you already have a big genoa, that IMHO tips the balance away from the asy as the best upgrade.
If you had a non-overlapping jib, I'd suggest an asy would be a better upgrade.
If you want to fly it on shorter legs, then go for the asy. IMHO you need sea-room with these things, what's sensible crossing Lyme Bay might be silly in the Solent. Lyme Bay looks busy when you come back from a transatlantic though....
Getting it up and down calmly, the key is lots of space to go down wind. Not a big panic while reaching fast towards an Island or the path of a trawler etc etc.

I'm ambivalent about snuffers, I'm not sure they are that big a help in dropping. Where they do score is keeping a big kite undercontrol while hoisting, setting guys etc. A kite out of control halfway up is more of a pain than one halfway down. Also if 1/2 up, we quite often snuff to gybe an asy, saves setting up both sheets, and it's tea-break, cross on the chart and all that.
 
Many thanks, yes Ive got a selection of spinnakers with the boat, but as yet havent taken them out of the garage !

lw395 said:
I would look for a secondhand symmetric kite.
Size? As big as you dare if you mostly want to avoid motoring in light air, smaller for fun in more breeze.
Something past its racing days will make a big difference and it's a lot less painful if it gets damaged.
It's horses for courses, you can justify any number of sails, but as you already have a big genoa, that IMHO tips the balance away from the asy as the best upgrade.
If you had a non-overlapping jib, I'd suggest an asy would be a better upgrade.
If you want to fly it on shorter legs, then go for the asy. IMHO you need sea-room with these things, what's sensible crossing Lyme Bay might be silly in the Solent. Lyme Bay looks busy when you come back from a transatlantic though....
Getting it up and down calmly, the key is lots of space to go down wind. Not a big panic while reaching fast towards an Island or the path of a trawler etc etc.

I'm ambivalent about snuffers, I'm not sure they are that big a help in dropping. Where they do score is keeping a big kite undercontrol while hoisting, setting guys etc. A kite out of control halfway up is more of a pain than one halfway down. Also if 1/2 up, we quite often snuff to gybe an asy, saves setting up both sheets, and it's tea-break, cross on the chart and all that.
Click to expand...
 
Doug, I'll send a message offline.


doug748 said:
Yes. I guess you are in the Yealm... which has a good deal going for it. Good shelter and zero swell.

Those poles sound very handy, though I tend to end for end my single one. It is very heavy and I can often get away without a downhaul, as I am only normally in light airs. Your light poles will tend to fly so the downhauls will, no doubt earn their keep.
Click to expand...
 
I cleat the vang for my downwind pole halfway between my bow and my chainplates, which lets me roller furl the jib, without taking the vang off.
Some have run two vangs for the main, led back to the cockpit, so they can gybe the vangs from the cockpit, both of which act as preventers
 
I have a parasail on my nic 26. I regularly use it and often sail single handed. It's relatively easy to set and collapse as it has a snuffer. Even with the lines rigged, it's not a hugely quick job, but well within the scope of a single person. A distinct plus point is that you can use it on a broad reach so once up it gives you a lot of options. It also lifts the bows which steadies the boat so it doesn't roll as much. I wasted a lot of good years pondering the purchase when I could have been using it. I do have a smaller spinnaker on the boat but it was always a headache setting and controlling it single handed.
 
Bish said:
What about one of these? A Blue Water Runner: http://www.elvstromsails.com/world/united-kingdom/elvstrom-sails-uk
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I considered that set up, but it is really rather limited for coastal cruising. Fine for sailing dead downwind such as long tradewind passages, but is not a substitute for a cruising chute, even though they claim it can be used as a genoa. It is also expensive compared with a cruising chute. Over twice the price of a straight cruising chute with snuffer or 40% more than one on a furler.
 
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