Short hand berthing

[harstonwood]

Ok, so came into berth a couple of days ago, downwind and with the stream.

Wind fairly gusty blowing about 360/12-15. Berthing south, bows in

Approached steadily, and fully aware that steering would be poor due stream etc. anyway turned into berth, and (luckily) judged it ok so straight in. Plan was to pin bows against a dock fender, leave in tickover, so i could get warps on.

Now what was strange, was the stern wanted to keep wandering away from pontoon finger, to starboard and across to neighbours (very expensive) racing yacht

I had left starboard wheel and in gear.......was this prop walk? I thought the flow over rudder would have counteracted it......should i have used more throttle?

Any advice greatly received, as for us the technique should work well, as its not so easy to get a line on quickly, and engines controls etc are on starboard side of boat, finger on port side, high freeboard, cleats in weong place!

Thanks

Hw

 

[marklucas]

Personally, I would never approach a (presumably finger pontoon) bow in down-tide, down-wind.

What I suspect happened is that the reverse thrust from your prop never made it to the rudder as it was countered / spread by the tide (effectively the rudder was in still water) and so an imbalance of wind / tide and some prop walk took you over to your neighbour. Your rudder had no grip in the water as it had no flow (which is why prop walk happens) although I suspect it probably wasn't significant in this case.

If you had reversed in, you would have had twice the tide's flow of water over the rudder and using a mid-ships loop could have moored safely single-handed.

 

[Boomshanka]

+1 for the mid-ship loop... back to a winch... lasoo the loop over the pontoon cleat then just pull in the slack on the winch and lock off. +1 also for the reverse in if you've got space... ask how many pilots would want to land downwind

 

[harstonwood]

No the stern moved after we had stopped, in the perfect position,. I only used a touch of reverse to slow completely before coming to a halt. We were in forward gear tickover when the stern moved. (bows pinned against walkway) and in the perfect position, about 18 inches or so away from finger.

Appreciate comment about reversing in, but would need to practice in calmer conditions first! ( not had this boat long)

Also, the pontoon setup is not really stern in friendly!


My gut feeling is it was the stream taking the stern, as it tends to flow from about 030 to 210 through our berth, ( bows in on hdg 181) this was a springs ish falling tide.

What i am after is a technique which will counteract all this, when shorthanded!

Thanks

 

[harstonwood]

... ask how many pilots would want to land downwind

thanks for tips.....plan is to get a line on winch, but i need to get over to that side, before stern moves.

Ref downwind landing.......an experienced pilot may choose to land downwind, if it it mitigates runway slope, weather, and terrain, and is within limits
In terms of LDA etc. familiarity with known approaches make this part of the diagnosis of options

Same with berthing yesterday.......bows in approach is more familiar to me, ad i suspect the stream was taking the stern.....if i sterned in, i suspect the stream would take the bows. ( no bowthuster)

For balance to the discussion about downwind landings i am very inexperienced in boats, but have 15000 plus hours and am a current heavy jet Capt. instructor/examiner

 

[Bobc]

We have the same situation and it sounds to me like you did everthing right, but as you say the stream probably has a slight offset and pushed you sideways a bit.

If there are 2 of you on the boat, then the lassoo works well (we use it all the time). However you may well find that you need a big ball fender off the bow because as the lassoo takes-up, it can pull the bow into the finger.

Otherwise why not just let the boat sit onto the boat next door (with some fenders out obviously), and then sort it out from there. You can still leave the boat in forward, drop a line onto the boat next door, and then walk round to your finger pontoon , attach a warp to the end cleat and throw it over to the boat, then stic it round the winch an pull yourself up to your berth.

 

[harstonwood]

Thanks Bob c .......was trying to avoid clambering over my neighbour.

I guess more throttle would work?

Going to make a loop up and try this lasso of cleat and winch in, this seems to be the general consensus.

Not many yachts stern in at our marina, the fingers have a fillet to facilitate bows in, which is encouraged by marina for better securing etc

Many thanks for all the replies, its very helpful.

 

[jimi]

If you could drop a loop from your midships cleat over the end cleat on the pontoon as you go in and motor against that with the rudder hard over rather than the bow it will hold you against the pontoon better than motoring against the bow on a fender?

 

[harstonwood]

Thanks Jimi

Yep that technique seems to be the concensus

Just wondered how much throttle would be required to hold stern in, with bows pinned against dock fender, to give me more time to calmly sort out the aft line

 

[DaveS]

I don't think I would agree with those advocating reversing in in these circumstances: the bow is likely to blow off either onto the pontoon or your neighbour; stern to the wind is much more stable. Selecting astern gear early should allow you to stop the boat relative to the ground - moving astern relative to the water, so a firm grip on the helm required - then adjust helm and throttle to bring you slowly in to the pontoon. With a mid ships line attached to the first cleat on the pontoon the stream should hold the boat in without engine.

 

[GruffT]

I had left starboard wheel

With tide behind you may well have been effectively 'reversing' so would want port wheel to push the stern to port wouldn't you?

Personally usually go with mid cleet loop and stop short if in a tricky spot.

 

[bbg]

Add some fenders on the starboard side, towards the stern.

 

[Tranona]

If this is your home berth, then suggest you make up permanent lines shackled to the pontoon. Then make a post - I use a 1" piece of water pipe in a stanchion fitting screwed to the pontoon and a guttering support for a hook - at the end of the pontoon. Hang your warps on that when you leave. In my case it is the midship cleat loop, stern warp and forward spring. enter as you normally do, nudge up towards the walkway, collect the warps from the hook. Midships on first, then stern to stop it swinging - I make mine off temporarily to a cleat on the cockpit side - and then walk forward with the spring which holds the bow in while I pick up the two bow lines from the pontoon with a boathook.

Obviously the details may vary depending on the layout of your boat, cleats and lines, but the principle of having pre-made lines accessible from deck is what makes it work.

 

[dt4134]

Absolutely agree that stern in wouldn't have solved the problem. I normally berth stern in and motor against a midships spring, but there is a vulnerable spell in some conditions (like the ones you describe) until I or the crew can get the spring on a cleat. You're reliant on slick crew work.

I'd say:

1) fender up the side next to your neighbour so there's no possibility of damage. And if she's a very lightly built racer make sure you have more fenders to spread the load not fewer.

2) Abort early if you're not happy.

3) If you do try to hold the boat in under engine and rudder you need to stay at the helm until she's settled down and you know she's under control. You (or at least I) forget this last bit occasionally but the boat is very good at reminding me.

4) If you end up lying quietly alongside your neighbour you can lasoo your cleats or hop over the bow (or stern) to get some lines on.

 

[fireball]

Thanks Jimi

Yep that technique seems to be the concensus

Just wondered how much throttle woukd be required to hold stern in, with bows pinned abaind dock fender, to give me more time to calm sort out the aft line

Lassoing - we try to practice this too - tend to use a boat hook to drop an enlarged loop over the required cleat.

Holding the stern in - as you seem to be happy to rest the bow on the dock then why not lasso a stern line rather than a mid line - or perhaps both?

If it's just 2 onboard then the easiest way is to put a loop in the stern line, take it through the aft fairlead and to a winch - give the tail to the helm.
Make sure there's enough lead to have the loop lay by the shrouds - as the midships pass the first cleat you (or the crew) can drop it over and then the helm takes up the slack from the winch - no great rush - just needs doing promptly.

 

[mjcoon]

What i am after is a technique which will counteract all this, when shorthanded!

Thanks

I think, as other have said, that you were effectively reversing through the water because of the tidal stream. Tick-over in forward did not counter this flow over the rudder.

So if you had gone into neutral and put the helm the other way the flow should have taken the stern to port and against the pontoon (if I have got my mental diagram right!).

Helm central might be the most reliable if unsure what direction the stream is running at the time...

HTH, Mike.

 

[harstonwood]

I think, as other have said, that you were effectively reversing through the water because of the tidal stream. Tick-over in forward did not counter this flow over the rudder.

So if you had gone into neutral and put the helm the other way the flow should have taken the stern to port and against the pontoon (if I have got my mental diagram right!).

Helm central might be the most reliable if unsure what direction the stream is running at the time...

HTH, Mike.

Yep I think that is exactly what happened, so my technique will probably work better when there is less stream. May experiment with wheel

Tranona.....thanks......yes .....will try that.

All......thanks for all the tips and advice.

Its a shame throttle is on starboard wheel. And pontoon in on port side.
Never mind...its normally a blow on berth, just a weird wind on wednesday, with a strong stream (both river and tide). Keeps it interesting! Am happy to fender against neighbour if necessary, but would prefer to avoid it.

 

[EdWingfield]

I might radio the marina for staff to be waiting to take lines.

If there are no staff available you could do a ch16 asking for any locals who might be available.

If you think there is a chance of damage - take a temporary easy berth.

 

[harstonwood]

Thanks Ed

The question was about technique to keep the stern in......and how others did it, as I was suprised it moved in tickover. I think i know why now

Cheers

 

[Blue5]

Thanks Jimi

Yep that technique seems to be the concensus

Just wondered how much throttle woukd be required to hold stern in, with bows pinned abaind dock fender, to give me more time to calm sort out the aft line

We have exactly this situation from time to time, port side to. You are fine going in bow first. We have the ball fender on the port bow just in case, slip a loop over the first pontoon cleat from midship cleat and back to genoa winch. Engine on tick over ahead wheel to starboard, almost at the same time line from the stern cleat to the same pontoon cleat prevents any tendency to kiss next doors boat and for the bow to turn to the pontoon.

Every berth, current and wind direction is different so once you have worked out a method it will become second nature, main thing is to do it at the slowest speed possible to complete the manoeuvre safely.