Shore Power

[Uisteach]

We're thinking about shore power for the long trip starting next year and pondering over whether to go for 110v or 240v? Of course having both would be ideal, but is that possible? Is there some kind of inverter that can switch from one to the other? If not, any advice? Looking at pilots and Cornell's book, seems like each are as common as the other globally, beyond Europe, but what do those out there think?

(Also thinking of not bothering at all, but even part-time on the present boat it's useful, if only to run a small fan heater from time to time and top up the batteries)

Any views appreciated.

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[snowleopard]

depends on (a) where you are going and (b) what you want to run off it. europe is 220v, USA 110v and their spheres of influence follow suit. if you want to run lots of appliances off it you'll need a transformer when you hit the 'other' voltage. if it's just for battery charging then you should be able to find a charger that will take either and probably switch over automatically.

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[Uisteach]

Hi SnowL, thanks. A transformer? Are marine versions readily available? Actually our power needs will be really low, in addition to battery charging we'd just want to run a small fridge, and have a few power points for temp stuff like a lap top, electric kettle. We're planning to go far and wide and,a s you say, there tends to be an equal split between following the US and following the EU. What solution did you come up with? Always worth finding out how others have organised themselves.

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[LadyInBed]

Re: Really low

>> Actually our power needs will be really low, in addition to battery charging we'd just want to run a small fridge, and have a few power points for temp stuff like a lap top, electric kettle.<<

Cut out the Fridge and the kettle, then it will be low.
Those two items are at the high end of the scale.

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[Robin]

Re: Really low

Completely agree Nigel and really bad for the environment too this excessive usage of power, lots of oil burned making that electricity and it would be much more resposible to utilise wind and solar energy. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif

The hated gas guzzling Americans have an apt phrase for this " what goes round comes round" (Red diesel post on SB)

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[rallyveteran]

Apart from the USA and places under its influence in Central America and the Caribbean I think you will find 220 - 240V available everywhere.

In the USA most marinas will offer a choice of 30A (with three pins) or 50A (with four pins) at 110V. If you connect the two "hot pins" to your live and neutral, and leave the shore neutral unconnected, you will get close enough to 220V. We used this system for more than 6 months in the USA and it worked fine. No need for a transformer at all.

Going the other way, if you are 110V on the boat you will need a transformer in most places.

Rallyveteran

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[ccscott49]

Sorry to complicate matters, but its not just the voltage, its also the frequency of the AC, 110 at 60 hertz, 220/30/40 at 50 hertz. A simple transformer will not always do. I stick with 220. My battery charger automatically switches between both volatges and my inverter will run most things onboard, but not a kettle! at the moment, but I am upgrading to a 3 kw, inverter, which will. But then again, if in the states, buy a cheap electric kettle. You will find most cruising folk do just that, if spending any time in US or US type marinas.

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[Sea Devil]

In the states I started to use more marinas than I anticipated so my 220 system did not function.

I did have a small transformer but in the end,after spending a little time in the States, I just purchased really cheap - kettle, battery charger etc and ran 110 into my system by simply changing the plugs. You do need to get the polarity right.

Had the same problem with gas. Impossible to get european bottles filled. This was a much bigger problem. Buying a couple of US gas cylinders was pretty cheap but the plumbing to get them into the system was a nightmare. Could not get any threads to match - in the end did a 'bodge' and kept the bottle on deck like US cruisers do. I think you will find gas a bigger isssue than 110v and harder to solve.

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[Uisteach]

Thanks guys, as usual this is very helpful. But can I ask for a bit more info?

• Bambola, so 110v (with a "normal" US type electrical plug?) will work in a 220v system? But what about the polarity issue mentioned by CCSCOT49, is this not really a problem?

• Is this then the same as rallyveteran's solution? Or are they saying something different from you?

Have thought about the gas issue. From what you say it's not as easy as carrying different types of adaptors. We've decided to go for a Dickinson diesel stove (which can also serve as a heater in colder climes), and then we also get the bonus of not needing gas on board.

Hi Robin - that's scuttlebutt and this is the serious, real stuff! Hope you weren't offended, it was just a bit of fun.

Cheers.

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[Robin]

No offence, like it says on my bottom "tongue firmly in cheek".

Re USA electrics:-

May I suggest reading Nigel Calders excellent 'Boat Owners Electrical & Mechanical Manual' which has lots of info on 110v V 220v.

There are ways I believe of connecting to 110v to provide 220v BUT at 60KHz not 50Khz, but most things will work. Many modern smart chargers like the Sterling 40 Pro model we use, can run on 110v or 220v, so charging isn't a problem. If you have even a small inverter you can then run quite a bit, we have a 350w one which will run TV (multi-std so will work Pal or Secam etc), it will recharge cordless tool batteries and run the laptop. Otherwise if you find the local Walmart store you will be able to buy things like coffeemakers, toasters, kettles very cheaply indeed to use at 110v.

Gas in the USA is propane not butane and connections are different. Calor Gas publish a good leaflet on this and suggest converting before you go, propane works better in the cold for winter use anyway. However the leaflet (it may be on their website?) also explains what happens if you run butane through a propane regulator or vice versa and with some care it can be done I believe. If you connect to your on board regulator via a rubber hose then you just need a selection of the local end fittings. However have a look too at West Marine USA, their catalogue I believe shows adaptors from USA to Gaz and Calor. Gaz is available anyway in all French territories.



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[Uisteach]

Thanks Robin, so essentially with a 220v system it is possible to plug into a 110v supply (with a local plug connector) and use 110v equipment. And that the 110v would give us 60khz (not 50khz). If we want to use 220v equiment then we'd need an inverter.

I assume from what's been said that it can't be done the other way around - plugging a 110v system into a 220v supply?

Thanks, that's been really helpful.

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[cliffb]

Hi,
No need to be too concerned about the 60Hz/50Hz thing. In practice it makes little difference. It just means that motors (fans, pumps etc) will run a little faster. As for the 110/220v issue, have a look at the plate on appliances. Some will be dual voltage, i.e. autoswitching.
Moving onto the post that suggested connecting live and neutral on your system to the two hot pins on a four pin supply.... erm...I'd be VERY wary about doing that. It sounds to me like you're playing around with 3 phase power here, and fair enough, it is possible to get 220v across two phases of a 110v 3 phase supply, but I believe it depends on how the power is generated. Whether it's Star or Delta .... or something like that... and this is where my knowledge faulters...
All I do know is that 3 phase is to be handled very carefully...it is literally lethal stuff..at 220v... at 110v maybe not so much... but still to be treated with the utmost respect.
All the above, as always, just my opinion.

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[cliffb]

<If we want to use 220v equiment then we'd need an inverter.>

No. Not an inverter. This turns DC into AC. What you'd need is a Step Up Transformer.
Just another word of caution BTW.. (and not wishing to add to your confusion /forums/images/icons/smile.gif), but be aware that whilst you're running on half the voltage (i.e.110v), you're also pulling twice the ampage. This means that the cableing you're using needs to be capable of handling that amount of current. In practice, therefore, if you have the transformer close to the supply (on the pontoon/dockside maybe) then all cable after that can be of UK type. But if you have the transformer in the boat..at the appliance, for instance, then all cable between the transformer and the pontoon hook up needs to be capable of carrying the inceased load.
Sorry if this adds to you confusion, but melting circuits are a bit of a nightmare!
Cheers
Cliff


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[Robin]

Yes that's about it. Nigel Calder's book BTW is a definite must have IMO and the West Marine catalogue too, we get 2 copies every year, one for home and one on board and do the same for the French chandlery cats.

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[Robin]

Cliff you misunderstood what was said. The intention was to run the 220v stuff from an inverter off the ships 12v system, which is then re-charged by the smart charger (dual voltage version) from the 110v AC mains supply. The inverter doesn't need to be gigantic because high AC users (like kettle/coffeemaker/toaster etc) if required on board can be bought locally in 110v format very cheaply and run directly from that. Some items also like hairdryers, curlers and travel irons can be bought over here or over there as dual voltage ones.

Robin

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[White_Lady]

It would help if you filled in some information on your profile page.Is your boat the Kon Tiki oe QE4?

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[cliffb]

Robin,
Fair enough
<skulks away with tail between legs>

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[rjp]

Electricity in US is commonly run to houses as 220/230v, with the 'neutral' at -110 and the 'live' at +110v, then split at the consumer unit to give two 110v supply loops. It is normal to recombine these two circuits to give 220/230v for running electric dryers and cookers, usually via a four pin plug (pos, neg, neutral and ground). I'm not an expert but I've never heard of this as being regarded as dangerous.

John

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[Sea Devil]

My solution was simplistic - when I was there I just needed to run a battery charger and when it got cold a blow heater. Cost only a few dollars each...

Just unhooked my 220v battery charger from the circuit. Nothing else there except some outlets... stuck a US marina plug on the end of the shore power lead and pluged in. put UK plugs on the cheap US battery charger + blow heater and thats it- the battery charger was sensitive to correct polarity so I asked a yank. Having tried other solutions this was by far the cheapest and easiest..

Propane - Butane - once out of europe you take what you can get and sometimes its even a mixture....!

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[Uisteach]

Robin, your point about Calder's book is well taken.

Bambola, sounds like the simplest solution and others seem to agree, many thanks.

Thanks all.

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