Shore Power Setup

[jrudge]

Well, if it were my boat and I would have in mind to keep her, I'd rather access the inner side of those two inlets, detach the wires from the 16A socket attach them in parallel to the 32A.
This way, you can use just one 32A cable at all times, and call it a day.
In fact, unless I'm missing something, for all intent and purposes that's exactly the same as using two cables with a Y adapter on the dockside.

The main hassle is when you get Cr*p shore power. 2 is then a godsend as you can run the AC on one 16a socket and the rest of the boat on the other without fear that the whole lot will pop any moment. Also on a similar vein if the OP has the immersion running, the chargers, the microwave a kettle and the hob as well as AC he will be well over 32 amps ( probably).

The S65 just had 64 amp x 2 but annoyingly the way it was set upon was the first 64 amps came from cable 1 and the 65th amp came form cable 2 - so if you only had 32 amp shore power you could not connect 2 as it would not help ( and the boat needed 40 amps for decent AC!).

 

[Seastoke]

so guys the on board breaker ie 16 amp protects the boat just say a fault develops in the 16 amp inlet or rhe cable from the inlet to the breaker onboard what is protecting it ,yes the breaker ashore so if it is a 32amp breaker the cable or inlet can burn at high input currents ,boat burns also boats either side ,what do insurance say .Yes its unlikely but you guys on here love your boats and look after them well ,but take the electrics for granted just like peeps do at home ,please respect ,it kills and burns ,its only advice

 

[Portofino]

so guys the on board breaker ie 16 amp protects the boat just say a fault develops in the 16 amp inlet or rhe cable from the inlet to the breaker onboard what is protecting it ,yes the breaker ashore so if it is a 32amp breaker the cable or inlet can burn at high input currents ,boat burns also boats either side ,what do insurance say .Yes its unlikely but you guys on here love your boats and look after them well ,but take the electrics for granted just like peeps do at home ,please respect ,it kills and burns ,its only advice

No ones at home Roy .

 

[Seastoke]

No ones at home Roy .

i hope they are cleaning up beaches LOL

 

[Portofino]

i hope they are cleaning up beaches LOL

They are running around in the dark in a hazardous area ,heads down at the screens squabbling about XTE with out NAV lights on

You can join me in my corner of the playground called the “ overthinking corner “

 

[petem]

They are running around in the dark in a hazardous area ,heads down at the screens squabbling about XTE with out NAV lights on

You can join me in my corner of the playground called the “ overthinking corner “

I think JtB said it all in posts 11 and 15.

 

[superheat6k]

so guys the on board breaker ie 16 amp protects the boat just say a fault develops in the 16 amp inlet or rhe cable from the inlet to the breaker onboard what is protecting it ,yes the breaker ashore so if it is a 32amp breaker the cable or inlet can burn at high input currents ,boat burns also boats either side ,what do insurance say .Yes its unlikely but you guys on here love your boats and look after them well ,but take the electrics for granted just like peeps do at home ,please respect ,it kills and burns ,its only advice

Review the size of the shore power cable.

1.5mm2 2 core max 26 amps
2.5mm2 2 core max 36 amps
4.0mm2 2 core max 49 amps

Free air ratings with conductor at a maximum of 90oC and ambient temperature 30oC.

Thus a 2.5mm2 cable will suffice for both a 16a and 32 a supply. However, keep an eye on the length because too long the cable volts drop can become an issue as the current increases. The simple answer here is that if you use 32a shore side sockets do not have 1.5mm2 shore power cables on board.

With a Y Cable as mentioned a single male 32a at the shore receptacle end splitting to two females is perfectly OK. The cable rating should be higher than the protective breaker at the source end. So a 32a male plug with two tails each of 2.5mm2 to female receptacle sockets would be absolutely fine.

 

[Seastoke]

Review the size of the shore power cable.

1.5mm2 2 core max 26 amps
2.5mm2 2 core max 36 amps
4.0mm2 2 core max 49 amps

Free air ratings with conductor at a maximum of 90oC and ambient temperature 30oC.

Thus a 2.5mm2 cable will suffice for both a 16a and 32 a supply. However, keep an eye on the length because too long the cable volts drop can become an issue as the current increases. The simple answer here is that if you use 32a shore side sockets do not have 1.5mm2 shore power cables on board.

With a Y Cable as mentioned a single male 32a at the shore receptacle end splitting to two females is perfectly OK. The cable rating should be higher than the protective breaker at the source end. So a 32a male plug with two tails each of 2.5mm2 to female receptacle sockets would be absolutely fine.

this is my last post on the subject ,how can you supply a 16amp rated trailing socket ,with a 32amp supply ,

 

[petem]

this is my last post on the subject ,how can you supply a 16amp rated trailing socket ,with a 32amp supply ,

You often have no choice. My boat has a 16amp socket but occasionally the only supply on the quay is 32amp. Hence I am reliant on my two onboard breakers.

 

[BartW]

,how can you supply a 16amp rated trailing socket ,with a 32amp supply ,

I would recommand that you visit a few med- marina's, and have a look at the shore power connections, especially in summer when there are many non resident boats in the berths !
I think you might be "chocked", not from a electric current, but just from looking at the connections and all the adapter ;-)

seriously, back to OP,
I fully agree that the use of a Y splitter from one male 32A, to one fem 16A + one fem 32A is a perfect solution for this setup

I have more ore less a similar setup, 2 x 32A connections, but inside the boat they switch automatically to one when just one supply is connected.
and I have adaptors to connect the boat to the following types of shore connections:
red CEE 3phase 16A, red CEE 3phase 32A, red CEE 3phase 63A,
and every possible adaptor in monophase , blue 63A, 32A,16A (single or double)
and I have adapters to the blue french Marechal (90A?) connector

our 75ft boat can run on 2 x 16A shore power supply (even at 1 x 16A without airco)
and ofcause everything bigger than that.

 

[jrudge]

this is my last post on the subject ,how can you supply a 16amp rated trailing socket ,with a 32amp supply ,

As other have said look at any med marina.

However I dont follow your logic.

My house has (say) a 100 amp supply. The breakers for lighting are then 5amp.

Based on this logic this is dangerous should the breaker fail.

I disagree - that is what the breaker is for.

 

[Seastoke]

As other have said look at any med marina.

However I dont follow your logic.

My house has (say) a 100 amp supply. The breakers for lighting are then 5amp.

Based on this logic this is dangerous should the breaker fail.

I disagree - that is what the breaker is for.

I will reply ie house the 100amp supply is to your consumer unit which the isolator is rated at 100 amps the cable to the con unit should be 25mm which can carry 100amps ,

 

[Seastoke]

The cable rating some one has suggested are high ie 2.5, 36amps i dont think so but we can all do what we want untill a clsim is due , maybe its time our boat were tested like inland waterways ,not what i want to see though,

 

[petem]

OK, SS, what do you suggest in this simple scenario?

My boat has a 16amp shorepower socket. I turn up a marina and all there is on the quay is a 32amp supply.

 

[Seastoke]

OK, SS, what do you suggest in this simple scenario?

My boat has a 16amp shorepower socket. I turn up a marina and all there is on the quay is a 32amp supply.

It's a good question if it was me I would be stuck has I only have a 16amp lead , but if this happens where I boat I would make a small box with a 16amp breaker in feeding a 16amp socket and the breaker would be supplied via 32amp plug and 4mm cable not 2.5 as I have never seen 2.5 rated st 32amp but I take the med is more relaxed ,but just say something went wrong and you was not wired right ,I hope not

 

[petem]

It's a good question if it was me I would be stuck has I only have a 16amp lead , but if this happens where I boat I would make a small box with a 16amp breaker in feeding a 16amp socket and the breaker would be supplied via 32amp plug and 4mm cable not 2.5 as I have never seen 2.5 rated st 32amp but I take the med is more relaxed ,but just say something went wrong and you was not wired right ,I hope not

OK, I agree that your solution is optimal but your box would need to be water resistant and withstand it getting knocked from time to time and also theft proof. But, if you made a breaker box as you suggest and it got damaged causing someone an electric shock (marina worker) you may find yourself in trouble.

Would you agree though, that providing either of my onboard 16amp breakers is working, then the chance of pulling 32amps though the cable is extremely remote?

Boating eh?!

 

[MapisM]

It's a good question if it was me I would be stuck has I only have a 16amp lead , but if this happens where I boat I would make a small box with a 16amp breaker in feeding a 16amp socket and the breaker would be supplied via 32amp plug and 4mm cable not 2.5 as I have never seen 2.5 rated st 32amp but I take the med is more relaxed ,but just say something went wrong and you was not wired right ,I hope not

Non sequitur.
So far, I understood your point, even if personally I'm comfortable enough also with somewhat less kosher approaches (I'm the one who suggested the LBOK, after all... ).
But in a previous post, you dismissed the use of a 16A cable/inlet to a 32A dockside socket on the basis that the inlet 16A breaker "could develop a fault".
Now, isn't that exactly as likely to happen to the 16A "breaker in a box" that you are suggesting now?

 

[Portofino]

I,am on 6 mm sq cable for 32 A for a boat L or just over say 16 M in all .
Pete + JTB your 1st of your first of your “ two “ breakers “ is most likely a reverse polarity one ?
Then there will be the 16 A on the panal .Its this that may take spikes ( planned within reason for AC motor starts ) or fail .
It will have a % overage as J Rudge intimates .
Now you have greater than 16 A from the 32/64 or what ever - shore box “ warming “ things up .

Your shore power lead or the connection from the failing breaker on the panel to the distribution board .
Obviously the actual switch ON the distribution board say a 6 A for an appliance may trip .

But the wire to that allegedly 16 A fully functioning breaker ( your 2nd ? ) from the shore say 32 a is getting warmer quickly.
It would be better if the shore A matched to panal A or was lower .AND the shore lead matched the box A as well .
That’s my point btw .

For AC installations, double pole main circuit breakers that switch both the active and neutral must be used. Regulations require that a breaker that trips if the polarity is reversed (relay trip breaker) must be fitted to boats. This gives protection in cases where incorrectly wired shore power leads are used. A residual current device (RCD) is also compulsory. An RCD detects any leakage to earth and instantly interrupts the power supply.
I hope you are not thinking one of your “ two “ is one of theses above ^^^ ?

So you ought to get a thicker 32 A cable if you leave your boat ( no one can hear the smoke detector) plugged into a 32 A or greater with a 16 A lead .SS ,s idea of adding a back up breaker is the 2nd of the “two “ you think you already have .
Or better still keep it all 16 A .

Bart is going the other way big A boat to small A shore , so NA here .

Y adaptors where ever they are are just asking for trouble as a permanent fixture.
My dog pees on them , because he can smell other dogs urine - territory marking not bladder issues .
They don,t look particularly weather proof either if you closely inspect the glands where water can run down and in .
Buts that just a side show which will lead to the shore box clicking off not a fire .

 

[petem]

Pete + JTB your 1st of your first of your “ two “ breakers is most likely a reverse polarity one .
Then there will be the 16 A on the panal .Its this that may take spikes ( planned within reason for AC motor starts ) or fail .

Nope, the first breaker is on the stern adjacent to the shorepower socket. The second breaker is on the panel. The reverse polarity detector is separate as far as I know.

 

[Seastoke]

Pete I was wrong I looked in my regs book and it states that there should be no damage or joints in the lead from the boat to the marina connection ,so I am stumped ,but I would upgrade lead size to 4 mm if on 32a