shore power - how to tell if its ok for uk?

[symondo]

Been thrown a bit of a curve on this 1 to ask this question...

i have uk plugs installed inside, the breaker panel says 220v.... (not 240)

The plug on the exterior on the boat is a female plug - not a male plug which doesnt fit the 16a standard hookup cable - even so, after looking about various chandlers at fittings, its the wrong end so to speak.

is there a way i can find out if i need to change a load of wiring to make this suitable for uk, or has it been bodged to work on uk circuits and needs to be done properly?

 

[prv]

The 220v part will be fine. The female input socket (implying a male plug with live pins!) is dangerously wrong and should be replaced.

The same numpty who did that might have made other bodges and cockups, so it would be a good idea to check over the whole system.

Pete

 

[VicS]

Been thrown a bit of a curve on this 1 to ask this question...

i have uk plugs installed inside, the breaker panel says 220v.... (not 240)

The plug on the exterior on the boat is a female plug - not a male plug which doesnt fit the 16a standard hookup cable - even so, after looking about various chandlers at fittings, its the wrong end so to speak.

is there a way i can find out if i need to change a load of wiring to make this suitable for uk, or has it been bodged to work on uk circuits and needs to be done properly?

Just to be clear the inlet connector on the boat should have pins. The connector at the boat end of the cable should not have pins.

On board the power should go to some sort of consumer unit which has a RCD, which may also function as the master switch, and an MCB for each of the circuits in the boat. That may be just one for the 13 amp sockets and one for a battery charger etc

If you spend much time plugged into shorepower the system should also include a galvanic isolator in the incoming earth connection

 

[symondo]

Just to be clear the inlet connector on the boat should have pins. The connector at the boat end of the cable should not have pins.

On board the power should go to some sort of consumer unit which has a RCD, which may also function as the master switch, and an MCB for each of the circuits in the boat. That may be just one for the 13 amp sockets and one for a battery charger etc

If you spend much time plugged into shorepower the system should also include a galvanic isolator in the incoming earth connection

yeah i hadnt actually thought about it upon inspection, until i thought id try and plug it in and realised 'hang on a minute....'

i have a board of breakers near the galley for master, plugs, battery charger etc....

ive a friend who is a sparky who will try n get a look for me as even if i replaced the plug to a socket im not sure what else is potentially bodged as said. he lives 100 odd miles away but visits relatives fairly regular so id like to try n get a fair understanding to hit the ground running so to speak

 

[fireball]

the bit on the boat you plug the cable into should look something like this:

 

[symondo]

the bit on the boat you plug the cable into should look something like this:

ive got the other end which im quite confused as to why someone has purposefully fitted

 

[Mistroma]

ive got the other end which im quite confused as to why someone has purposefully fitted

Only a someone in the running for a Darwin award would terminate a shorepower lead with a male connector with nice live pins sticking out of it.

I suppose it is possible that your socket might be a power outlet to supply something previous owner ran in cockpit whilst other systems were left connected to shorepower. Seems highly unlikely though as most people would just run an extension from saloon when it was needed. You'd also have spotted the female socket used to get shorepower.

I'm thinking that the "Darwin award candidate" option is most likely even though it is insane.

 

[fireball]

two reasons why you might have a female end on the boat ...

1) (as Mistroma said) it's to supply something else on the boat - or in the cockpit
2) There was an Inverter fitted (badly) to the system - so if that was on whilst underway then you could potentially have had a live plug - hence fit a socket so you can't electrocute yourself.

There is a little logic in the socket - if you're happy that you only ever connect the boat before you connect the shore-power (and disconnect shorepower first before boat) then you're not at risk of shock ...

are you certain that it is the mains-in plug though?

 

[symondo]

Only a someone in the running for a Darwin award would terminate a shorepower lead with a male connector with nice live pins sticking out of it.

I suppose it is possible that your socket might be a power outlet to supply something previous owner ran in cockpit whilst other systems were left connected to shorepower. Seems highly unlikely though as most people would just run an extension from saloon when it was needed. You'd also have spotted the female socket used to get shorepower.

I'm thinking that the "Darwin award candidate" option is most likely even though it is insane.

i wondered if it was maybe the 'american way' of doing things

im pretty certain its the mains input as theres no other visible option and it looks to be in the 'correct' location looking at other boats of the same model/age

the shore power cable supplied has a plug (with pins) and a 3pin household plug on the end - again it looks like its been a home made job albeit terminated very well. however the pins dont actually fit the plug on the boat (the other end was unplugged at the time of trying this) yet they do fit another 16a socket i had lying around

 

[symondo]

Not sure if this will work but here is what I'm working with

 

[JVL]

Where in the highlands are you ? if thats your shore power socket on deck it "well dodgy"

John

 

[davidpbo]

Panel looks as though it might be original and suitable but there does not appear to be any Residual Current Circuit Breaker (RCCB) with a trip current of 30ma or less. There may be one elsewhere, not a difficult job for a competent person to fit.

I have quite a lot of electrical experience, some of it on ships and would have a look at the standard of the rest of the wiring myself and get an idea as to whether it needed to be replaced, tidied up or left. If you are not sure what you are looking at get your sparky friend to have a look.

 

[prv]

The "Export Only" suggests to me that this is an American boat which would normally have been fitted for 110v but this one was wired for 240v (or 220, they're basically the same thanks to tolerances) as it was destined for Europe. So it probably had one of those poorly-designed American input connectors with the hook-shaped pins that rotate slightly. At some point in the UK, someone decided to replace that (not a bad idea) with a European style 16a connector, but being a bit hard-of-thinking they bought a female socket instead of a male one, forgetting which way the power would be flowing.

If that was the only modification then the rest of the system fitted by the builder might be ok.

Another point though - in the picture it looks like the socket is on the outside of the hull, just above the gunwale. Surely it's at risk of getting wet there?

Pete

 

[symondo]

The "Export Only" suggests to me that this is an American boat which would normally have been fitted for 110v but this one was wired for 240v (or 220, they're basically the same thanks to tolerances) as it was destined for Europe. So it probably had one of those poorly-designed American input connectors with the hook-shaped pins that rotate slightly. At some point in the UK, someone decided to replace that (not a bad idea) with a European style 16a connector, but being a bit hard-of-thinking they bought a female socket instead of a male one, forgetting which way the power would be flowing.

If that was the only modification then the rest of the system fitted by the builder might be ok.

Another point though - in the picture it looks like the socket is on the outside of the hull, just above the gunwale. Surely it's at risk of getting wet there?

Pete

its a bayliner so yeah US boat

i did think it was a daft place for it to be but seems a fairly common place for it. im going to fit 1 with a panel that closes over to keep water out.
the wiring to the plus on board looks fairly fresh - so maybe its just a daft bodge job. i'll have it checked out though just to be on the safe side when my mate is up for a visit


JVL -I'm in fort william at the bottom end of the caledonian canal -which is where i wish to put the boat once ready to go

 

[KevinT1]

In your picture of the control panel it says "turn off generator before removing panel" -are you sure that this female socket isn't now or in the past connected to an onboard generator ?

Kevin

 

[symondo]

In your picture of the control panel it says "turn off generator before removing panel" -are you sure that this female socket isn't now or in the past connected to an onboard generator ?

Kevin

100% sure there is no generator on board. I guess it may have been connected to 1 at some point

 

[prv]

In your picture of the control panel it says "turn off generator before removing panel" -are you sure that this female socket isn't now or in the past connected to an onboard generator ?

That's just a standard off-the-shelf warning sticker, it wasn't specially made based on this boat's equipment

Pete

 

[Momac]

As said the inlet for shore power should have pins showing . The inlet on my boat looks like the example on the following.......
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Caravan-Motorhome-Flush-Fitting-White/dp/B0027PO0K2

I would say the original has been damaged/removed for some reason and replaced with the incorrect ''outlet'' connector which is what you should find on the pontoon , not on the outside of the boat. Even the americans understand electricity and aren't that daft. They probably would have fitted one of those really expensive connectors and a previous owner flogged it on ebay and left you with a death trap.

.

 

[symondo]

As said the inlet for shore power should have pins showing . The inlet on my boat looks like the example on the following.......
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Caravan-Motorhome-Flush-Fitting-White/dp/B0027PO0K2

I would say the original has been damaged/removed for some reason and replaced with the incorrect ''outlet'' connector which is what you should find on the pontoon , not on the outside of the boat. Even the americans understand electricity and aren't that daft. They probably would have fitted one of those really expensive connectors and a previous owner flogged it on ebay and left you with a death trap.

.

Thats basically what I was going to buy fit and seal to rectify this.

 

[superheat6k]

Do not be concerned about 220v as opposed to the UK's almost unique 240v single phase supply standard.

Single phase voltages are derived from the base supply voltage 3 phase and line neutral, which for the UK is 400 VAC +10 - 4% (commonly referred to as 415 volts), which derives as 240 VAC single phase (any phase to neutral). The rest of Europe is 380 VAC which derives as 220 VAC single phase. Explaining why single phase is not half nor 1/3 the 3 phase voltage gets a bit complicated, so I would suggest you simply accept this as fact. (Single phase voltage = 3 phase voltage x 1 / √3 )

Most appliances are supplied based upon the Eu 380 VAC / 220 VAC single phase design, with a 10% voltage tolerance, which means European designed appliances are just fine on most UK standard supply voltages.