Shore power and hot water

[Sequoiah1]

I would like to consider replacing our existing gas water heater with a calorifier heated by the engine and perhaps electric shore power. For those few occasions we get near a shore plug. The present system has Jabsco pressurised hot and cold feed to the galley and the heads sink. I would like to fit a shower in the heads, (one of those combined sink tap with extending heads would do) We have a small heat exchanger on the top of the engine already if that helps. There are generally only two of us so no big queues for the shower.

My question is two fold:

We have no shore power system fitted at the moment (I prefer to avoid marinas unless circumstances dictate otherwise however I can see us having to make some changes and with sailing abroard and leaving the boat for possibly long periods……..). What would I have to fit to make a dedicated shore power connection to the boat and are there any preferred manufacturers of the equipment to fit etc?
What would I have to fit to the boat in terms of calorifier plumbing etc to get hot water aroundand again any preferences for manufactures of equipment?

Many thanks in advance for any good advice!!

 

[Flossdog]

When we bought our present boat it had a gas water heater in the heads. Was very unhappy with the flue arrangement so ditched it and fitted an Elgena KB6 electric immersion heater under the sink next to the Jabsco pressure pump. It is a 600w 240v heater so is used when we are hooked up. However, as it is only 600w it will also work on a small generator. It heats 6 ltrs of water to about 70 deg C so when mixed with cold water for a shower is plenty enough. We are very pleased with it and the cost (£140) was far below a replacement gas heater.

Regarding your 240v installation, better leave that to someone more qualified than I.

 

[PeterGibbs]

How are you off for space? A 20 litre calorifier is quite bulky: siting it near the engine saves long lengths of servicing pipes.

A 240 v mains element is a good additional feature. We use ours quite a lot. You can either have a full 240v system installed on the boat via an external deck socket, even a ring main. Or you can just have an internal socket if you are really only going to make the connection now and then: in this case use a long camping type cable and connect when required to the lead from the calorifier.

I suspect that with time you might regret not going full mains -we use ours for an electric toaster and kettle, and have a battery charger permanemetly connected. So when plugged in to the shore, quite a lot of good things are at your disposal! One limitation, many marinas only size their plug for 1kw draw: so having two major draws on at once will blow the shore connection. So be alert.

There are a number of makes available through chandlers: they all do the same thing, and in my experience, last quite a few years despite the harsh environment. Your space limitations may determine which make you choose. Expect to pay £250 - 300.

Installation is DIY providing the circuit from the engine is without complications.

PWG

 

[vyv_cox]

Firstly, if by abroad you mean near-Europe, then having electric power makes a lot of sense, as electricity is normally included in berthing charges. I won't advise on the electrical issues, although I installed my own.

Assuming your engine is fresh-water cooled, you can install a calorifier almost anywhere on the boat, although the nearer it is to the engine may give less problems. It also helps if it is below the height of the header tank and filler, although it can still be persuaded to fill if this is impossible. You then need to identify a means of circulating hot water from the engine coolant system from somewhere at the top near the manifold after the circulating pump, through the calorifier connections (in at the top, out at the bottom) and return to somewhere near the suction side of the pump. Many engines have the connections for these attachments already provided so you only need to fit hose connections.

We find a 25 litre calorifier to be more than adequate.

 

[ditchcrawler]

Just to clarify many raw water cooled engines can operate a calorifier.I have a raw water cooled Volvo 2003 & get plenty of hot water from my calorifier.Volvo do a kit to fit a calorifier.

 

[BartW]

We have put a victron Multiplus unit in our boat,
http://www.victronenergy.nl/product.php?productid=147

this is a combined battery charger / 230V invertor.
with this unit, you have a controll knob to set a limit on the current you take from the marina supply.
The clever thing is, that if you need more power then available from the supply, this victron unit will take some power from the battery's. and then later when your load is less, the victron Multiplus will load the battery,
this is all automatic, just one button to set shore current limit value

 

[vyv_cox]

I'm very well aware of that, I have posted many times here advising those that said it was not possible to do so that they were talking through their exhaust pipe.

In the context of the OP that doesn't tell us the make of the engine or its cooling method I thought that further elaboration would be a waste of time until we know the details.

 

[wotayottie]

[ QUOTE ]
Just to clarify many raw water cooled engines can operate a calorifier.I have a raw water cooled Volvo 2003 & get plenty of hot water from my calorifier.Volvo do a kit to fit a calorifier.

[/ QUOTE ]

You might, but I have a 2003 too and get no warm water from the calorifier! A pal with a Moody 31 says the same thing but my 336 has a longish run of pipe to the calorifier and the flow of hot raw water isnt good enough to heat the tank.

I had a gas water heater in my last boat, and wish I had it in this one. In theory its OK to vcount on engine heating (if you have a system that works) and on immersion heaters, but you have already said that you dopnt like marinas. So that implies a lot of engine running to get hot water and running without load is not good for the engine. Plus its noisy.

If I were you, I'd go for the calorifier but I wouldnt get rid of the gas heater. Have all three instead - engine, immersion and gas.

 

[Sequoiah1]

By abroard I do mean Europe
I probably have enough space to mount the caloriifer next to the engine and below one of the water tanks but i was not sure how big the calorifier should be for our purpose. I have a spare water feed from the tank as an emergency tap so I gues I can adapt that as the supply.

 

[Sequoiah1]

Good point about keeping the Gas Heater, I guess I can initially and see how we get on with the finished system

 

[PeterGibbs]

Expanding on this a little:

Putting the calorifier tank in the engine compartment works best if it is low, near the floor - easier working for the hot water from the engine's closed system.

Then feeding and drawing fresh water is another set of pipes -most use the Whale plastic variety - that has to connect with the existing water distribution system. If you're sending hot water to more than one outlet you'll need a distributor - simple piece of plumbing kit: possibly an extension of what you already have installed for your present system will suffice?

Finally, I can't see how this would work unless the system is pressurised. I can't recall you making that clear in your initial question.

I can see you sitting down with lots of diagrams...best employ the carpenter's prayer: may I always measure twice and cut once!

PWG

 

[Sequoiah1]

The system that exist is already pressurised, so I assume that I can keep this as it is ?

 

[No Regrets]

Shamby has a Volvo D3 engine, and calorifier, and it works perfectly, although at very slow river speeds isn't quite warm enough.

Up to 5mph, and it's toasty!

The mains works fine too. Nice for overnight moorings if you want a hot wash...

 

[davidmbooth]

A bit off - topic, but I am looking for a small mains circulator pump to preheat the engine and heater matrix on my 23' boat ( FW cooled ), this would do the calorifier if you had one, but the engine would end up hot as well - not bad thing in winter.

 

[PeterGibbs]

Absolutely.

PWG

 

[Abigail]

On size - ours is 20 litre and that's plenty. It works both off the engine and when plugged in as an immersion heater if we turn it on. There is a pump to the heads (only place we have plumbed in hot water to restrict use).

Ours is a little distance from the engine (in a locker outboard of the wlakway between engine room and aft cabin) and we're planning to move it for reasons of convenience rather than anything else. We have insulated parts of the pipe run and find that the water is usually (off the engine in particular) very hot) in the heads.

I wouldn't dare comment on the electrics. Even if you install a proper shore power connector possibly with 240v access on board, it is well worth making up a long lead with a marine plug on one end and a gang of sockets on the other. Incredibly useful in boat yard work.

Also bear in mind that marina plugs vary; you will accumulate lots of different plugs and become expert in changing them! A recent thread on Liveaboard shows the importance of taking responsiblity for plugging in yourself and being aware of the potential overload risks.

 

[vyv_cox]

Raw water systems

We really need to know what engine you have and whether it is raw water cooled. Can then give more detailed advice.

To those with raw water cooled engines that won't heat a calorifier I offer the following:
Don't use the water that leaves the manifold and is spiked into the exhaust. This contains bypass water that has not gone through the engine, so is nowhere near hot enough. The best system uses a separate circulating pump taking water from up at the manifold and returning it to the bottom of the jacket. Many engines are equipped with the connections for this.

You might get away with a thermosiphon system, no pump, but the calorifier would have to be sited very carefully, as would the tubing runs.

If you have the above and it still doesn't get hot, firstly check that the tubing connections to the calorifier coil are the right way around. If not there will be no flow, even with an electric circulating pump. Secondly, make certain that the system is fully filled without airlocks. This can be difficult to achieve, I found it best to take both hoses off from the engine end, lift them high and top up with a funnel and overflow bucket.

 

[Sequoiah1]

Re: Raw water systems

1973 Ford 55hp diesel (marine version of the transit engine), raw water cooled

 

[2nd_apprentice]

Re: Raw water systems

Can't comment on the hot water since I use a kettle for that but this is what I found handy for shore power: SunnCamp

A lot less hassle than fitting a permanent setup especially if you'll only need it now and then. Nice price too.

 

[vyv_cox]

Re: Raw water systems

Fitting a calorifier to a raw water-cooled engine.

The principle is that water is circulated between the block and the calorifier, not as some unsuccessful installations seem to use, between the block discharge and the exhaust.

Equipment needed is the calorifier, hoses, and a circulation pump. The pump to use is the Johnson C010P5-1, 12 Volt, 16mm ports, part number 10-35159-3 from Aquafax or T. Norris. The pump takes the hot water from engine to calorifier.

My system is fitted to the Bukh 20 but it appears that other engines have the necessary fittings and are essentially identical in principle.

Examine the engine for any blanked off, screwed fittings in the water system, one on the manifold and the other on the lower region of the block. Standard hose fittings can be screwed into these to replace the blanking plugs. These are the hot and cold regions, respectively. You may be able to use the water jacket drain fittings for the lower one. If none exist it is a simple job to drill and tap holes to take standard hose nipples. Hot water is taken from the manifold, to the upper coil fitting on the calorifier, out of the lower fitting, to the suction of the pump, from the discharge nozzle and back to the cold fitting on the block. The pump is wired to come on whenever the engine is running. Mine has been fitted since 1995, about 100 engine hours per year.

Filling the system is sometimes difficult, I have found the most successful way is to back-fill against the water flow direction by removing the return hose from the block. I put a transparent hose on the block and lift the other end up, then fill the calorifier coils from the discharge side with a funnel raised up a couple of feet above the engine. Usually this fills everything by the time the transparent hose overflows, although there could be an air lock at the top of the block this does not seem to bother the calorifier. I sometimes spend an hour or so messing with this at the start of the season.