Ships papers

[Daydream believer]

Discussions about companies going in to liquidation recently made me think
I instructed a broker to handle the sale of my yacht. A reputable broker who I have confidence in
I also handed over all the papers vat invoice bill of sale etc proving ownership of the boat
Now if someone did this & the receivers moved in would they claim that the yacht ownership had passed to the broker because he had proof of ownership.
Or could I just go & ask for the documents back

 

[LittleSister]

No, as I understand it, the Bills of Sale, and your correspondence with the broker, proves that you were the owner, and that you had no intention to pass ownership to him/her, nor anyone else, without payment yet to be agreed.

You could just ask for the documents back, and I would expect a receiver to do so (eventually!) without you asking, unless, perhaps, the brokerage business was being sold on, and the broker had the right to transfer your business to another person/company without your consent. I can't recall any terms relating to such a situation from the single time I used a broker to sell a boat, and don't know, but doubt, that a brokerage could pass business onto another without either your explicit consent, or specific terms in your brokerage agreement avoiding the need for that.

All the above assumes everyone is acting properly and within the law. There are some shady people about, but one would hopefully have had a degree of confidence in the broker before appointing them.

 

[doug748]

All he would have is proof that you own the boat. Papers can get lost I would pass on copies for him.

 

[Tranona]

No. A broker never has ownership of the boat and just because he holds the papers doe not make any difference. Not sure why you would imagine it would be any different.

Sea Ventures went bust because of its trading activities - that is it buys and sells boats. It also acted as a broker, but client who had boats being bought and sold through brokerage activities would not have been affected because all financial transactions would have been through a trust account which is not part of its trading activities.

 

[Mark-1]

Discussions about companies going in to liquidation recently made me think
I instructed a broker to handle the sale of my yacht. A reputable broker who I have confidence in
I also handed over all the papers vat invoice bill of sale etc proving ownership of the boat
Now if someone did this & the receivers moved in would they claim that the yacht ownership had passed to the broker because he had proof of ownership.
Or could I just go & ask for the documents back

Unless it's on the Part One register there's no proof of ownership in your docs.

 

[Tranona]

Unless it's on the Part One register there's no proof of ownership in your docs.

Yes there is - he has an invoice and Bill of Sale to him. That is sufficient evidence of title. All Part 1 adds is that the title is registered. You can register title with less robust evidence than he has.

 

[Mark-1]

Yes there is - he has an invoice and Bill of Sale to him. That is sufficient evidence of title.

It's evidence, it's not proof. I've still got the Bill of Sale for a Phantom I sold 35 years ago.

 

[Tranona]

It's evidence, it's not proof. I've still got the Bill of Sale for a Phantom I sold 35 years ago.

Neither is the register as it is based on the documents the OP already has. In fact as I said you can get registration with far less "proof". What could be stronger than all the original documents from the day the boat was build and still with the same owner.

Not sure you understand the nature of legal title and the purpose of registration. The registry only requires evidence of unchallenged title rather than a complete record of title changes back to the beginning. The register is not "proof" only a record of the evidence presented to support registration. Also it is not a register of "ownership" but of title which in law are different things.

 

[Mark-1]

Neither is the register

I'd agree. I discovered recently that my Local Authority were struggling with a planning issue because even the UK Land Registry isn't proof of ownership, and I had thought that was the gold standard.