Ships' Papers

[SpitfireJEJ]

A recent article in another magazine mentions the papers it was necessary to produce in order to acquire a permit to sail in Croatian waters. These were listed as "insurance, registration and a skipper licence. The authorities felt disinclined to accept a Canadian CYA coastal skipper cert as a skipper licence.

As a neophyte ploughing his way through the RYA certification and with ultimate cruising ambitions, my questions are as follows. What would have happened if either the insurance or licence were not recognised or there had not been any? Would the skipper have been allowed to leave providing he got out of Croatian waters asap, or somehow prevented from sailing at all? Are there other areas which are verboten to skippers without certification? Finally what if the vessel had been sailed single handed, thus invaliding most conventional insurance?

 

[BrianH]

A recent article in another magazine mentions the papers it was necessary to produce in order to acquire a permit to sail in Croatian waters. These were listed as "insurance, registration and a skipper licence. The authorities felt disinclined to accept a Canadian CYA coastal skipper cert as a skipper licence.

As a neophyte ploughing his way through the RYA certification and with ultimate cruising ambitions, my questions are as follows. What would have happened if either the insurance or licence were not recognised or there had not been any? Would the skipper have been allowed to leave providing he got out of Croatian waters asap, or somehow prevented from sailing at all? Are there other areas which are verboten to skippers without certification? Finally what if the vessel had been sailed single handed, thus invaliding most conventional insurance?

As someone who has been cruising Croatian waters from my Italian marina since 1980, I have some observations here.

What the authorities do in this case is offer an examination for a Croatian licence, valid only in Croatia. If not accepted, one is free to leave without permission to cruise Croatian waters, which also means one is not required to pay the considerable cost of the sailing permit.

One may well wonder if, judging by other mercenary manifestations, the substantial cost of this examination (plus the cost of a translator if the applicant and examiner do not have a common language) has any relevance.

If the authorities find that the entering boat has a VHF radio (and who does not, these days) then an operator's licence for that is required. If none is possessed, guess what? An examination can be arranged .... for a fee, naturally.

 

[Oyvind]

Dunno about the specifics for Croatia, but if you are skippering a foreign flagged boat, the rules of the flag state apply wrt the certificates of the captain and the boat, per the IMO conventions.

 

[BrianH]

Dunno about the specifics for Croatia, but if you are skippering a foreign flagged boat, the rules of the flag state apply wrt the certificates of the captain and the boat, per the IMO conventions.

Try telling that to the authorities at your entry port in Croatia, it won't wash. They demand that any skipper is certified and a Brit can argue until he is blue in the face that his government has no such regulations and that under international maritime law ... etc., etc. I have witnessed just such a confrontation in Umag when I was myself declaring out.

It was argued that whatever the flagged country's requirements were or were not, Croatia has the right to impose its rules independently; that every master of any vessel must have a recognised certificate of competence. I would advise anyone contemplating cruising Croatia to obtain an ICC.

Last year I was informed by a Croatian charter company manager that the authorities have stipulated to them that they are obliged to ascertain in writing that prospective charterers, from anywhere, state that the skipper has, at a minimum, an ICC and that someone who will be on board for the charter duration has a short range VHF radio operator's licence (from 2010 all Croatian charter yachts must be equipped with a VHF radio).

 

[vyv_cox]

Try telling that to the authorities at your entry port in Croatia, it won't wash. They demand that any skipper is certified and a Brit can argue until he is blue in the face that his government has no such regulations and that under international maritime law ... etc., etc. I have witnessed just such a confrontation in Umag when I was myself declaring out.

Not only Croatia. I have been asked to produce my 'driver's licence' in France, Spain, Italy and Greece. No idea what might have happened if I did not have it, but at least one of these occasions was in a small port in Greece that is renowned for imposing fines for the most trivial of reasons. It's always a different matter to argue the legalities when confronted with a foreign official.

 

[DJE]

Dunno about the specifics for Croatia, but if you are skippering a foreign flagged boat, the rules of the flag state apply wrt the certificates of the captain and the boat, per the IMO conventions.

This comes up a lot and I'm far from certain that your point is correct. According to the RYA there is a difference between making a passage through coastal waters of a foreign state and visiting their ports:-

"Under UNCLOS vessels have a right of passage through the territorial waters of another country; all vessels exercising this right of passage must undertake a continuous and expeditious passage though territorial waters and may not engage in any activity which does not have direct bearing on the passage. They must also abide by international conventions - such as Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS), the International Regulation for Preventing Collisions at Sea (COLREGS) - and the Coastal State has the jurisdiction to ensure that they do so."

"The majority of cruising yachts will not however be regarded as being on a continuous and expeditious passage as they may be cruising along the coast, perhaps anchoring for lunch and they may also visit several ports within the Coastal State. These activities bring pleasure boaters under the jurisdiction of the Coastal State and they could then be required to adhere to all of their regulations."

Does anyone here know the legal chapter and verse on this one?

 

[Tranona]

Does anyone here know the legal chapter and verse on this one?

You are right in quoting the RYA advice which is derived from the UN convention and practice. It covers "innocent passage" and entering port - logical as it is based on commercial shipping where ships enter foreign ports for specific commercial reasons. The convention allows for ships to meet the safety and crewing requirements of the flag state rather than the foreign state they are visiting.

This is very different from cruising in a state's territorial waters which is what we are talking about here. In this case the local state can impose any requirements it likes on visitors. However, in practice most states do not insist on meeting local safety requirements on equipment, but often impose their own requirements on crewing. So for example in Spain if you operate your boat commercially it has to meet their requirements, but if you are a visitor you don't.

The obvious specific requirement is determining the competence of the skipper. Most countries have a local licencing requirement for their own yachts and citizens/residents, whereas of course in the UK we don't. Therefore you need to look at the RYA information on the ICC which is the UN sponsored document that confirms competence. This document is intended to be universal. However, you will see that the number of countries that have signed up to the convention is rather small. Fortunately in practice many countries accept the ICC rather than another country's certificate - but if you have an appropriate qualification from another country, its government should have a mechanism to issue an ICC.

So Croatia is perfectly within its rights to set any requirement and determine what papers it accepts. Whether this policy is accommodating to visitors is in a sense irrelevant - it is their country.

 

[BrianH]

Finally what if the vessel had been sailed single handed, thus invaliding most conventional insurance?

I neglected to answer this point in my response. Although I usually sail single handed into Croatia, my Swiss AXA insurance policy does not proscribe it. In any case, the blue certificate that they issue, and which the Croatian authorities want to examine (I once had terrible trouble by offering my valid policy instead), does not cover such distinctions, merely details of the ship and the third-party coverage limit.

 

[Tranona]

I neglected to answer this point in my response. Although I usually sail single handed into Croatia, my Swiss AXA insurance policy does not proscribe it. In any case, the blue certificate that they issue, and which the Croatian authorities want to examine (I once had terrible trouble by offering my valid policy instead), does not cover such distinctions, merely details of the ship and the third-party coverage limit.

I think the issue with insurance is different from other documents. My boat is insured in the UK, but the underwriter issues certificates in local language - in my case Greek showing there is third party cover. This as you say is all that the authorities require as they are only interested in third party cover. Other restrictions usually apply to the the insurance on the vessel, not the third party cover. Marinas often insist on seeing this certificate as well before you can use the marina.

 

[BrianH]

I think the issue with insurance is different from other documents. My boat is insured in the UK, but the underwriter issues certificates in local language - in my case Greek showing there is third party cover. This as you say is all that the authorities require as they are only interested in third party cover. Other restrictions usually apply to the the insurance on the vessel, not the third party cover. Marinas often insist on seeing this certificate as well before you can use the marina.

As usual Tranona you have precisely covered the pertinent points impeccably.

In Croatia, the marinas require only the sailing permit, issued by the Croatian authorities and granted after inspecting all relevant documents, including the insurance certificate. They hold it until you leave and settle up, in the knowledge that without it you cannot enter another marina and are likely to be controlled by one of the many police boats that cruise the anchorages checking on such things.

 

[Tranona]

As usual Tranona you have precisely covered the pertinent points impeccably.

In Croatia, the marinas require only the sailing permit, issued by the Croatian authorities and granted after inspecting all relevant documents, including the insurance certificate. They hold it until you leave and settle up, in the knowledge that without it you cannot enter another marina and are likely to be controlled by one of the many police boats that cruise the anchorages checking on such things.

Sounds like a fun place to be! I was very taken with the thought of cruising Croatia after the Tourist Board had a big stand and lovely enthusiastic girls at the London Boat Show a few years ago. However, every thing I seem to hear about it now from both individuals and charter operators is negative - apart from the scenery and people!

Still, like the £3 all you can eat and drink meals in Greece, all the best things seem to be in the past!