shipmate senior or skipper 17

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steve yates

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ok, no one really seems to know much about the start trekka, and I know for sure i'm interested in the pirate express, but two others I'm going to look at and might just make an impulsive offer on are a shipmate senior and a skipper/mariner 17. Does anyone have one, had one or sailed in one got any comments on their good and bad points, any comparisons and any reason why either wouldnt be very good to cruise coastal waters with, eg cumbria to iom and ireland? Any things I should look out for in viewing them or avoid buying if I find?
thanks
 
I had a Skipper 17 trailer-sailer for a short while. Horrible to sail but OK to mess about in sheltered waters. Don't even think about sailing across the Irish Sea in one!
 
Shipmate Senior gets my vote!

Have a look here:

http://www.shipmate.org.uk/

Great little shallow water boats, I had SMS55 for about 4 years (Eleutheros) Lifting keel with small stubs either side to dry out on.
Check the keel box for leaks, the coachroof for mast compression and make sure she has proper sails (not ones from a GP or Wayfarer/Wanderer)
The Owners Association are a great bunch, very friendly and helpful. Although I sold mine some 8 years ago, I still get a chance to meet with some of the owners in Ryde each August.
About £1200 should get you a good SMS with an outboard (engine can be anything between 2.5 Hp up to 5 Hp depending on where you sail)
 
If that's the Startrekka with bilge keels and the round fwd hatch, yup, had one. Brill.

Pompey harbour, around 1988. Went all round Solent in that.
 
I've had both a Shipmate and an Express Pirate.

The Shipmate is a great little boat, and I had lots of fun and travelled far up and down the South Devon and Cornwall coast in mine. I had the 'Dayboat' version with a smaller coachroof (better looking than the Senior) and simpler interior. The two berths were on the floor (with cushions), divided by the centreboard case, but very long and comfy (my 6 foot 8 inch tall friend said it was the best night's rest he'd had in ages, but he did have three young kids at home!). There was little storage space, so when under way everything was chucked in the cabin, and when at rest (usually anchor), the cockpit tent went up and everything was thrown in the cockpit. The boat is light and easy to launch and tow (I used to park the trailer on the sand at low tide, push the boat off the trailer onto the ground (single handed), and then go off to park the car and trailer. It's so small and shallow draft I occasionally used dinghy pontoons to get ashore, and it fitted in a friend's garage. Being so small, light and simple maintenance was minimal, and I'd be first away and last back to her cheap mooring in a shallow drying creek. The downside (apart from lack of space) is that they can be capsized (some add some ballast alongside the centreboard case to gain further stability), and they do slam in anything of a sea, so I would always get bit nervous when the wind piped up, or if the water was a bit rough.

The Express Pirate is a significantly more capable sea boat, in my opinion. It's a bilge keeled version of the Pirate, originally (i.e. non-Express) either a fin or lifting keel boat, by a renowned designer with a whole series of great boats to his name. I found it a remarkably capable and dry boat for its size, and (depending on the fit out - usually home completed, most poorly, some beautifully) more convenient and capacious than the Shipmate. I've been out in some pretty rough conditions and never had a doubt that the boat could take it. We travelled further than many much larger boats, and were always the smallest boat in the anchorage. The downside is that launching is much more challenging (I usually ended up getting it craned, but that's not essential), and her greater draft (though still modest) was a little more restrictive in terms of moorings and access timings.

I'd happily have either boat again, but would choose the Shipmate if it were for regular trailer/sailing at the cost of having to be more cautious about conditions, and the Pirate if I wanted to be less weather constrained and live aboard for more than a few days at a time, and wasn't going to trail it more than home at the end of each season.

Happy sailing whatever you end up with.
 
thank yoiu little sister, thats really useful info, I am leaning towards the pirate, strengthed by what you said,tho I know a shipmate senior sailed round the coast of engalnd and wales and southern scotland, using the forth and clyde canal. but, as its my first boat, I will probably end up with whatever catches my eye when I see her and the owner aceepts a price enough to make her a bargain for me :)
steve
 
steve yates said:
thank yoiu little sister, thats really useful info, I am leaning towards the pirate, strengthed by what you said,tho I know a shipmate senior sailed round the coast of engalnd and wales and southern scotland, using the forth and clyde canal. but, as its my first boat, I will probably end up with whatever catches my eye when I see her and the owner aceepts a price enough to make her a bargain for me :)
steve
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Getting a boat that's in good condition and has been maintained is important - probably more important than the type of boat. There are a lot of boats for sale cheap out there, many are rubbish, some are great. Don't rush into buying a pup.

I'd happily sail across the Irish Sea in the Pirate, but I'd probably take the Shipmate on the ferry (which is fine, too) unless I had lots of time to wait for that elusive good spell of nice weather (for the trip each way).
 
HenryEDM said:
If you want a go anywhere yacht in that size range you will find it hard to better a leisure 17
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+1 Designed by Arthur Howard who had a talent for designing roomy, tubby boats that nonetheless sailed very well. An early Leisure 17 crossed the Atlantic. I had one for five years sailing on the Irish Sea; buoyant as a cork and overtook many larger boats including Leisure 23s (different designer).
 
The Shipmate Senior certainly looks like the business...reminds me somehow of a bermudian version of the old Shoal Waters, in GRP...

Shipmate%20Senior_zpsetrv1too.gif


I wonder about her stability though, or tenderness, with only a 40kg centreboard and 34kg internal ballast.

Sorry if a previous owner has answered this already...I haven't read all the posts, I'm in a hurry this morning.
 
looked at a little dodnor marine star trekka last night, nice but too small inside. Also looked at a bradwell 18, bargain at £450 but needs painting up and some bits and bobs replaced, like compass, running rigging etc.

Quite spacious inside for the size though and feels built like a brick shithouse for a small boat. Was rather impressed. if I had wanted to do some fixing up and fettling of boats, I would have bought it on the spot. But I don't. I just want to get in the water and learn to sail, so shes not for me.
 
There's also the Sunstar 18, basically a rip off of the Leisure 17 but still a v good boat.

You might also want to consider the Manta 19, a slippery lift keeler - maybe not as robust as the Leisure / Sunstar.

The boat to go for at this size is the Hunter 19 or the revised version with a little more room, the Hunter Europa.

The 19 ' Willing Griffin ' was the smallest boat ever to compete and finish in the OSTAR, sailed by David Blagden in the 1972 race - he went on to host the ITV series ' Plain Sailing ' and his book ' Very Willing Griffin ' is sought after, goes for high prices secondhand.

These boats are super-seaworthy and sail like witches; not huge inside though - not for nothing that the only ' Community site here devoted to a designer is ' The Genius Of Oliver Lee ', he designed these early Hunters inc the Squib dayboat, Hunter 701 and my Anderson 22.

Several H19 / Europa owners here, Little Rascal for a start.

Fin, triple or very rare lift keel versions, there is a good owner's association.
 
+1 Mr Seajet, I also like a boat to look good & quite pretty, the Europa does it for me. Personally I think the West Wights are ugly.
 
+ another 1 Seajet for the Hunter 19. When doing the RYA/DTI stuff in the 70's a chap on the course had one which he regularly took across to the IOM in all weathers. Only remember because he was a very big bloke & wondered how he ever got inside the thing, really a fast dayboat with a lid. Chuckle at the thought whenever I see one. Legs on a small fin keeler should be straight forward enough on a drying berth. Its bigger brother the Achilles 24 also a nice boat (sounds like a classic boat topic now) again by Oliver Lee but a bit bigger committment.
 
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